Sue test

Dec. 17th, 2008 01:49 pm
[identity profile] easol.livejournal.com
I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I'll delete it if it has been.

http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm

I ran Anita through the Universal MS Litmus test, and she got a whopping 233 Sue points in a test where 50 is considered irretrievable Sueiness. I should do Gillian Key next.

(For comparison, I ran Sam Gamgee through it and got 8 points).
[identity profile] missamii.livejournal.com
Because two people asked for it, the book flog for Key to Conspiracy is here.

 http://missamii.livejournal.com/3217.html

If Gryphon and LKH were to have a "Who's the Sue-iest" Deathmatch, it would be close.
[identity profile] tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com
First post. I'm not well-read in the Anitaverse at all (read one, skimmed others, read the comic, seen lots of excerpts and reviews), and so I've hesitated joining the com, or saying anything too mean (I'll probably continue hesitating on that one), based on, well, my scanty qualifications.

Still, I read something today that was rather like a lightning strike, and I wanted to share. (I've Googled to see if it's shown up in this community before, and I can't find it.) It's an old blog entry by Kit Whitfield (an author I first heard of in this com) on a permutation of the Mary Sue -- the "Snappy Sue."

The fit is so apt it's kinda scary, I think.

Writes Whitfield (naming no names):

"A variant of Mary Sue becoming increasingly common in female-written and -marketed fantasy fiction. Snappy Sue is an empowered chick, generally urban and frequently in her twenties or older, who's respected/admired/worshipped for being a Strong Woman. Unfortunately, the author continually asserts her strength by giving her a tendency to take her temper out on all around her. This, oddly, makes people admire her more."

[....]

"Though she owes much to the rise of feminism, Snappy Sue fundamentally doesn't like women. She tends to be surrounded by men and have few female allies - female heroism is in short supply here, and Snappy gets all of it. ..."


Full blog entry:
http://www.kitwhitfield.com/2006/09/mary-sue-gets-mean.html

It's really fascinating.

(The preceding entry is also pretty fun: Mary Sue in the time of George Eliot)
[identity profile] knomey.livejournal.com
I've been meaning to post this for awhile now, from the LKH forums, in the Answered Questions section.

Oh, Laurell. Or Darla. Or whoever.

So as far as I can see, 'Mary Sue' is banned from the boards, and Laurell - I think? - has stated that Anita is NOT a Mary Sue. However, It's easy to see why a message board mod would ban the use of 'Mary Sue'. Because then, she wouldn't have to face up to term when she goes ahead and proves everyone's point.

WHY a character envisions herself a certain way, and WHY a character chose to take a particular major in college are fundamental building blocks of characterization. These details? These are the things that make your character a separate person from you.

That being said, why did Anita take preternatural biology in school? And why did she envision herself as a sort of preternatural Jane Goodall?

Well.

"Mostly that reflects Laurell's interest. She had duel degrees in biology and english."

I can see it now.

Richard: This is a nice nature walk, like the ones we used to take when we were dating and acting less insane.
Anita: I agree.
Richard: So. Why did you want to become a biologist, anyways.
Anita: Oh. Because Laurell wanted to.
Richard: W... uh. Who's Laurell?
Anita: Fuck if I know. DING DING DING. That's the ardeur! Take off your pants.

Snappy Sue

Feb. 26th, 2007 02:07 pm
[identity profile] catskin.livejournal.com
Found this on Kit Whitfield's blog and thought of you, Anita.
[identity profile] dwg.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] limyaael writes fantasy rants about...well, everything. She brings up some thought-provoking things along the way, and the latest rant about "ten ways of making all-powerful, unique protagonists tolerable" has me giggling like crazy because I keep thinking about how this relates to Merita

In particular, point 6: )
pith: (LKH)
[personal profile] pith
For my 19th C. BritLit class, I have to read "Silly Novels by Lady Novelists", an essay by George Eliot. As I was reading along, I thought, "Huh. This sounds so familiar." Fast forward about 150 years (it was written in 1856, I think) and tweak some societal details, and it's about LKH.

This version is longer than mine, but hopefully it has the quotations I'm referencing.
http://library.marist.edu/faculty-web-pages/morreale/sillynovelists.htm

Essay excerpts (drawn from my version) in bold; my comments in text. Any "LKH comment" I make is paraphrased.

using literary wank for snark purposes is the only real reason to go to university, yo )
[identity profile] witchwillow.livejournal.com
In another venue, the lovely [livejournal.com profile] troubleinchina pointed me towards a post where someone was discussing gender issues and had used as their example the Harry Potter Universe. I found the discussion very interesting, especially when Severus Snape became Severa and could then be compared to Morgan Le Fay of Arthurian Legend.

And it hit me then that used for Anita Blake, a genderswitch might quite clearly show how lopsided things seemed to have become and how much changed Anita is as a character. And there's so much more:

Antonio
(because we must keep the Mexican connection, yes?) Blake is a Vampire Hunter. He's known as the Executioner. Vampires only fear one other person, a hunter known as Death, whose real name is Edwina. Antonio does everything he can to deal with the monsters but in the course of a rapidly political and magically stressed set of events, he finds himself blurring the lines between monster and person. One of the things making the line blur is Rachel Zeeman, a were-wolf who struggles with what she is and tries so hard to be human, unlike Jeannette Claudia a centuries old vampire who never claims to be anything other than different, powerful and seductive. Soon Antonio isn't even sure if he's a monster as things get more and more complicated with the women he thinks he loves and the life he's living. And then comes the ardeur.

What does it say about the story when we reverse the genders and suddenly Anita is Antonio a man with a veritable harem of girls to have sex with, and who has a power to make other people want him? Who has a power (that as far as I know, given I haven't read the books) makes someone (a girl) trying to recover from an addiction to the ardeur want him and become addicted to him. Is that rape? Is that reckless endangerment? Is that fear of the power? Or is it a sneaky use of trying to get what he always wanted deep down in his Catholic heart but was afraid to pursue?

What about Rachel's determination to make the Pack a democracy? Or Rachel's stubbornness to hold on to her humanity and how she loses her acceptance of what she is at the start of each new book?

Does the fear that Antonio might use the arduer against Lisa his young apprentice animator become more poignant? Less?

Does our fear as readers that Antonio is a monster and doesn't realize it, and Edwina might and perhaps should put him down, become more realistic?

Questions? Thoughts? Suggestions? Discussions? Anyone? Bueller?

[[livejournal.com profile] pith, this is allowed, right?]
[identity profile] ladyravana.livejournal.com
Okay, I have a question that has been niggling my brain for a little while.

I saw that nightangel took the Mary Sue test for Anita, and she got 133. Impressive. And sad.

So, my question is this: Was Anita a Mary Sue from the beginning and we just never noticed, or did she eventually become the ultimate Mary-Sue right when the books started going to hell?

I mean, granted, Anita started at the exact same age as LKH and she herself lost her mother in a car accident when she was young. (And those things in and of themselves are highgly suspect, to say the least...It is disturbing how they parallel one another's lives.) And also, I think it might have started in book seven and eight when the books began their eventual backslide into the current pieces of literary crap they are now.

And really, with Anita, I wouldn't even call her a Mary Sue. See, she's gone so far above and beyond a Mary Sue that she's pretty much in a class of her own. To quote a review that was posted in here awhile back : "Anita Blake has surpassed the Mary Sue complex. She has swallowed it whole, shat it on the ground, and used it as fertilizer for her marigolds."

Perhaps she shouldn't be called a Mary Sue. Hell, I don't know what you would call her, because Mary Sue doesn't quite cover it. She's something else entirely. Something....much worse. What to call her?

I personally like calling her Anita Sue instead of Mary Sue.

So thoughts? Opinions on Anita's Sue ness?
[identity profile] nightangel486.livejournal.com
I took the liberty of filling out this test to see if your character is a Mary Sue for Anita Blake, and here are the results:

"Your Mary Sue Score: 133
71 points or more: Irredeemable-Sue. You're going to have to start over, my friend. I know you want to keep writing, but no. Just no."

The test can be found here:
http://ponylandpress.nfshost.com/ms-test.html

In particular, I felt the questions such as

"Do you take any negative feedback about the character as a personal affront?" "Is the character a mouthpiece for your own beliefs or views?" quite fitting of LKH, and "Are one or more other characters attracted to her/him? Even though they are involved with someone else or In defiance of sexual orientation?" fits Anita to a T
[identity profile] judes.livejournal.com
can someone please assure me that all of the typos and the weirdness of grammar in the "version" *coughonline* of Danse Macabre that i have is NOT from the actual book? and is because this is her first draft or because of attempts of not being able to be found from online search engines or whatever? yes. i think i'm just being silly and this version could not be what is published.

i found that for the last few books, as atrocious as they were, i could kind of make my way through it like chewing on pieces of wood. reading the newest book makes me feel like i'm chewing on pieces of asphalt while someone banged my head against the ground repeatedly.

spoilers i s'pose )
keepsake: (two souls in shadow)
[personal profile] keepsake
So did anyone notice:

in the dedication of Incubus Dreams, she dedicated it to her grandmother, who apparently raised her. Her grandmother's last name was Gentry. Is this news to anyone else? Because I had no idea she named Merry after her own family name.

Also, I got through skimming the first chapter and had to put the book down and read some Neil Gaiman instead to soothe the righteous anger I felt on Ronnie's behalf. Any self-respecting female, upon being treated like that by her supposed best friend, would tell her to FUCK OFF soundly and walk out. Clearly, LKH knows nothing about best friends.
[identity profile] darksongtrilogy.livejournal.com
Though I see people I know here. *waves* So hey, I was reading some past entries and came across something about Anita blowing off the Catholic Church because she could, because she was the put-upon heroine and the Pope just couldn't understand her. (Bad Pope!) It was all part and parcel of LKH's lapsed Catholicism. And agreed to all of the above, but it's worse than that: God has taken Anita's side against the Church. He's given her the thumbs up. Gang-bangs and polygamy? Anita's God-that-makes-vampires-cower-in-fear-of-a-cross is A-okay with it. Amen.

And THAT right there has got to be just about the biggest Mary-Sueage of all time. I don't think I've ever read another author that dared to go so far as to say that THE God, THE One, Himself backed up the main character. The mind boggles.
[identity profile] bites-the-sun.livejournal.com
Any (ex)fans of Patricia Cornwell's Scarpetta series here?

I ask because it just struck me that the Scarpetta books have declined in quality in a very similiar manner to AB:VH - each series featuring a decent character who rapidly disintegrated into blatant Mary Sue-ishness and with angst replacing plot after the series had achieved some measure of success.

Thoughts?
[identity profile] sometimeskate.livejournal.com
I've been bending my husband's ear with my frustration at what a Sue AB turned out to be. He pointed out that what we needed was a steel cage match between Anita Black, Vampire Humper, and Chenaya Vigeles, Daughter of the Sluts. Two Sues enter, and with any luck, neither Sue leaves!

To explain, Chenaya was a character in the 'Thieves World' anthologies edited by Robert Lynn Asprin. The author referred to her as "Chenaya, Daughter of the Sun". The anthologies were really great books at first, and then everyone started trying to out-uber everyone else. Chenaya really was almost a classic Sue and it got to the point where other authors would have their characters mock her. She also slept with almost every major character. She was always one of my least favourite characters.
pith: (Default)
[personal profile] pith
My brother used to be a ST:TNG (Star Trek: The Next Generation) fan. When he moved out, he gave me ST:TNG #24, because it was written by LKH and he knew I used to enjoy her books.. It's been languishing on my book pile. I'm tempted to mutilate it, but then again, I could sell it. Or keep it for laughs.

But the cover got me thinking about how much Anita looks like Deanna Troi. Which led me to draw other parallels. (Apologies for the mistakes I'll inevitably make: it's been a while since I've immersed myself in TNG.)

APPEARANCE:
Deanna: short; curly black hair, brown eyes; curvy
Anita: ditto

FAMILY:
Deanna: "alien" mother, human father. Thus, a "half-breed", to be politically incorrect.
Anita: mother is Mexican ("Other"), father is Caucasian. Result: "half-breed".

LOVE INTERESTS:
Deanna: Riker (dashing rogue type), then Worf (macho warrior type with a son) [okay, I can't remember if she actually had a relationship with Worf, but I remember it being hinted at]
Anita: Jean-Claude (dashing), then Richard (macho, wants a family), then... well, I don't have all night to make a list

Okay, so it's probably coincidence. I just found it ironic that her Mary Sue so resembles a character from a fandom that, according to prevailing opinion, spawned the first Mary Sue. It's a vicious cycle, I tell you.
[identity profile] nanale.livejournal.com
This is the newest blog from LKH, I didn't read all, because I was so pissed after half of it.
First of all, she still doesn't understand, that we DON'T hate/dislike her or are jealous of her success. Second, she still doesn't seem to notice her problems in writing, editing (ok, not only her job, but she's the one who gives the "ok") or consistency. My last note, before I give you this literal masterpiece to read and rant: she claimed, that the "ivory tower" is necessary for her, so please, don't blame us on using the term.


Read more... )

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