Curious about this for awhile...

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

It's been said in many places by different people that LKH's portrayal of the BDSM lifestyle is off. I know a bit more than just the basics - ah, the joys of reading - and can sort of inherently pick up that something isn't right with her depiction, but I can't really articulate it. I was just curious to hear from those who participate in the lifestyle, what they personally find offensive, frustrating, or just headdesk-worthy about LKH's portrayal. Perhaps they can help make it clearer to me why it feels amiss.

Comments

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

Totally, totally off-topic... I kind of like the French covers (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/images/2265078824/sr=8-13/qid=1178816392/ref=dp_image_text_0/402-2857671-4044110?ie=UTF8&n=301061&s=books&qid=1178816392&sr=8-13)! Sort of modern, sort of classical painting-y...

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Lol, now that you're mentioning it, it is kind of funny... lol, poor Laurell. She might not understand that yaoi 'doesn't stand alone' as a research source. Not in terms of attitudes or gay sex. Might not be accurate but it sure is fun to read. *grins*

[salustra.livejournal.com]

It really does. It's also cathartic. Putting the pain I'm experiencing into words, into descriptive prose, is kinda like venting without the whining and self-pity involved. *giggles*

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Nonconsensual sex is a recurrent fantasy, but I disagree on the repressed. I think many people (mostly women) have such fantasies and not all of them are repressed.

Well, true, can't really make a blanket statement that every woman who has noncon fantasies is repressed, it just seems to me that it's a fantasy that appeals somewhat more to those who have control issues to start with. Then again, I could just be speaking for myself. :P

And yes, the "dubious consent" does make sense...and totally fits the whole fantasy theme. The reluctant bride kind of thing, which actually seems to thread through a lot of the old romance novels my mom used to read. You know, big, strong, handsome and slightly brutish male hero, soft, fragile, virginal female heroine, she's reluctant, he "knows what's good for her", it starts out with "no, don't" and ends with flowers and fireworks.

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Yep. The one with the soap. And I winced too.

[deannawol.livejournal.com]

What is depicted in the series is not BDSM and to say that it is means that LKH has no actual real world experience in the world of BDSM. I think that she trapped herself into a corner when she started discussing Nathanial's background and playing it up in any of the books. She picked a background that sounded pathetic enough that we would go "awww" and immediately want to protect him. However, when she started to blow this up into a real background, the holes start to show through.

NiC shows this in spades. The fact that someone wasn't watching over Nathanial, that someone wasn't monitoring that a safeword wasn't being screamed. At every BDSM club that I've been to, there has been at least one person floating to make sure that no one was being pushed too far and that limits are respected. If she wants to continue down this road, she needs to do some research. Communities tend to be open and welcoming and willing to answer questions. She just needs to ask!

She pretends to be edgy, to be hardcore but she misses out on some of the basic principles: trust, respect, safewords. And those are only some of the things that she should be thinking about. Even a cursory reading of some of the BDSM-centric fics on the 'net will show these principles, or at least the better ones do. Just like reading a couple of gay fics will tell you that you need to lube first.

Her first encounter with Micah, her most significant submissive partner (and least developed character) involved a rather large bout of non-con. Intellect tells us that this is a relationship that should have shattered instantly. She said no and he went on anyway.

LKH seems to return to non-con/semi-non-con on a regular basis in both of her series. The main character loses all control over who they have as a partner, though for different reasons and while that is a kink (rape / rape-fantasy), it's technically not part of BDSM.

To be honest, I think that LKH is less including BDSM and more including Kink and very, very bad sex. But that's just my humble opinion - feel free to pick as appropiate.

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Oh. Oh, I misunderstood, sorry. *blushes* I thought you meant sexually repressed. As in, people who are all goody-too-shoes and then... BANG, they have kinky and 'dirty' minds. But, yes, people with control issues (in daily life) may very well be the ones that have those kinds of fantasies. Makes sense. ^__^

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. Personally I dislike those kinds of romances. Tried Christine Feehan (a popular paranormal romance writer, I think) but I hated the hero and heroine exactly because of that. I like romance novels where the heroine has a backbone and while the hero is a handsome (and inteligent) rascal he is also open-minded enough to change and to see the error of his ways. I like both of the protagonists to be inteligent, assertive and active participants in the action, not those 'man goes to battle, woman just sits home and is pretty' kinds of books. But I guess a lot of people do like them as they are still quite popular... go figure. ^___^;;

[slayra.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't exactly understand either (I dislike being told what to do and how to think... but that's just me), but there are a lot of inteligent, modern women who choose that kind of life for themselves. And as long as they have a choice that doesn't really bother me much, just the fact that, you know, I don't really understand.

Don't know if you ever saw 'Mona Lisa Smile'... it's a bit like one of the female students that was very inteligent and could have a great career but she chose a simple life, marriage and kids. It's all about what makes us happy and comfortable I guess.

As for me, I couldn't see myself living that way, I think I'd go crazy if I couldn't spend the money I wanted on books. *grins*

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Mediterranic blood, some say. *grins*

[brandiweed.livejournal.com]

I have Fibro. I deal with pain on a daily basis. It makes sense I'd have at least a couple of alters who have strange relationships with pain and control of pain.

Have you heard of Bob Flanagan?

[aramuin.livejournal.com]

Ditto with the strippers.

There's no real jaded 'I'm doing this for the money/to put myself through college' strippers. The only characters who strip are victims of past abuse who never seem to even contemplate getting into another line of work. Which baffles me since there are a fair number of weres who strip and I would have thought that the whole pack/pard/group-adjective-of-choice would be the perfect network to help the victim find another job.

Also, I find the idea that abuse is some sort of drug that weak and 'asking for it' characters get addicted to after one encounter to be deeply disturbing. One masochist (Nathaniel, say) is plausible*. Two is possible. Everyone in St Louis? That's pushing it. Then there's the fact that just because you have a masochistic kink doesn't make the actual abuse enjoyable or mean that you'll ever feel safe indulging said kink.

With such a horde of characters, why can't there be a plausible victim, one who gets on with their life but elects not to walk straight back into a lifestyle all but guaranteed to trigger bad memories at best, flashbacks at worst?

* By 'plausible' I mean that the sheer number of characters with abuse of a specifically sadistic nature in their background, probability alone suggests that one of the many has that particular kink.

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

No, but I'm wikipedia-ing him now.

[silent-sybil.livejournal.com]

She might not understand that yaoi 'doesn't stand alone' as a research source.

*Beavis-n-Butthead-esque snigger* "Stand alone"... ;P

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Well, actually I think it's applicable for the sexually repressed, too, though not all cases, of course. I'm trying to talk in tendancies and likelihoods rather than sweeping generalities and pigeonholing. :P I think for someone who's had a great deal of guilt and shame associated with sex while growing up, rape fantasy makes a safe outlet for desires that they aren't comfortable expressing otherwise. Removing control removes guilt and responsibility. LKH is a great example of this, since her "good girl" characters only experience what she views as perverse pleasures against their will, which means they stay good girls even though they're really doing a damn fine impression of a public utility.

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Well, my point is that the characters don't seem to consider it rape because it's such a privilege to fuck Merita, resulting in orgasms that register on the Richter scale, so why should we? (sarcasm alert)

The whole thing basically comes across to me as, "You were raped by George Clooney. But OMG, it was GEORGE CLOONEY, why are you complaining?"

Apologies to Mr. Clooney, but his name was just the first that came to mind.

I do agree, though, it is really f'ed up. If it's not straight out rape, it's coercion and a whole bunch of 'not quite rape but still really creepy and wrong'.

Then again, society in general has such a horrible double standard when it comes to sexual abuse/violence against men, so it really doesn't surprise me to see it here.

[arclights.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, oh yeah. *facepalm* Oops.

Haha, waaaaay back in the day when I started writing graphic scenes, I found a fabulous place called Minotaur's sex tips for slash writers, written by a gay man for the express purpose of helping out the slashers who aren't exactly able to duplicate what they're writing.

Honestly, though, I was kind of under the impression that LKH got her idea of homoerotic relationships from (bad) erotica and porn, or at least small snatches of watching it. Like, when she does get around to coming near it, it's really got nothing to do with emotional relationships or anything like that. As for the yaoi ... I had this theory that somewhere LKH has a fanfiction.net account where she got her start writing pretty-boy anime slash -- the kind where they kind of act like girls. Her characters seemed very anime/manga-inspired for a while (and still kind of do now that I think about it), especially once she started dragging all the weres into the story. I mean, lavender eyes are a staple of Helpless Weak Bishounen in anime. Her attitude is kind of 'omg shut up I got 456 reviews for my story so it has to be good'-slash-'500 reviews before I write another chappie NO FLAMES PLZ ^______^ lolol'

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Haha, waaaaay back in the day when I started writing graphic scenes, I found a fabulous place called Minotaur's sex tips for slash writers, written by a gay man for the express purpose of helping out the slashers who aren't exactly able to duplicate what they're writing.

I remember that site. I never wrote slash - and can admit now that I wrote bad hetero smut, too - but I visited that site on a fairly regular basis for some reason. It might have had something to do with the pictures. ^_^

[arclights.livejournal.com]

Whatever happened to the rest of the pard, anyway? Cherry? Zane?

...I kind of liked them. =/

[arclights.livejournal.com]

I actually started writing slash v. shortly after being inspired by some fantastic authors to start writing fanfic at all. Strangely, I've never written het smut. >.>

It might have had something to do with the pictures. ^_^

HAHA! They're still up there, and the site hasn't been updated since like 2001, which now that I think about it is a really long time.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I have the theory that Gabriel is totally not dead and was off earning a living somewhere and didn't know about Anita's taking over the pard until he was told about Raina being dead. So now he's back and plotting revenge on our heroine, and the rest of the pard is just, "OMFG YAYE! A REAL LEOPARD!" and have now crashed at his place and are enjoying porny games and such.

It's only a matter of time before he turns up, yoinks back Nathaniel and pwns Micah's ass, then makes them both watch as he hotly kills Anita.

[arclights.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a fantastic theory, and definitely far less mind-breaking and well-planned than the truth, whatever it is. ^_~

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

I do that, but I also tear the paper up afterwards.

[longtail.livejournal.com]

Same with Micah. The only part about ID that I liked was that she actually made him DO something normal...like reading a music magazine and looking for his leather punch. So apperantly he can work leather and he likes music mags like a normal young man. He also enjoys cooking.

I see such potential being wasted with those two.

[longtail.livejournal.com]

Eeep, I realized I mad a non-sequitor here...I was talking about Nathanial's interests after that first sentance, not Micah's. All I know about Micah is he runs a not-for-profit group for shapeshifters.

[salustra.livejournal.com]

To each their own. I label the fics, lots of people like h/c or torturefic.