Curious about this for awhile...

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

It's been said in many places by different people that LKH's portrayal of the BDSM lifestyle is off. I know a bit more than just the basics - ah, the joys of reading - and can sort of inherently pick up that something isn't right with her depiction, but I can't really articulate it. I was just curious to hear from those who participate in the lifestyle, what they personally find offensive, frustrating, or just headdesk-worthy about LKH's portrayal. Perhaps they can help make it clearer to me why it feels amiss.

Comments

[slayra.livejournal.com]

I agree. There are way too many scenes since book 6 that have creepy 'rape-overtones' (?). I've noticed that. I guess many people don't notice because usually (now, since NiC) it is the men who sometimes are almost forced to have sex. Many women (and men) simply don't realize it that easily when the situation is reversed and it's men instead of women.

Nonconsensual sex is a recurrent fantasy, but I disagree on the repressed. I think many people (mostly women) have such fantasies and not all of them are repressed. Also I wouldn't say 'nonconsensual', I'd call it 'dubious consent'; because in the AB books the sex always begins with somewhat unwilling partners but 20 pages later they're all happily having sex (because of the big plot line that can generate the excuses for that much sex... the ardUer). *blinks* Does that make any sense? ^___^;;

Oh yeah, I totally agree. LKH will never admit she didn't write perfect books and that she made a horrible mistake when introducing the ardUer. I know she said it might have been better without the ardUer but I think she doesn't really believe it. She thinks she's done well. But I say she didn't. There is a reason why most foreign publishers stopped translating and publishing at Obsidian Butterfly. It's not the sex, it's the fact that the new storyline sucks.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

There is a reason why most foreign publishers stopped translating and publishing at Obsidian Butterfly.

Did they really? Do you mean, she has actually lost sales over this?

[maeglinyedi.livejournal.com]

A lurker from Holland here. I can tell you that yes, LKH has lost sales over this. Only three books by LKH have ever been translated into Dutch. The first MG in 2003, the first AB in 2004 and the second AB in 2005. They weren't a huge success, and when it seemed that both series were turning into nothing more than boring porn in later books, the Dutch publisher decided to not translate anymore of her work. A very good decision, if you ask me. ;-)

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

And this is because sales are down overall, and not just because many Dutch speakers read English???

(And yet she's still not taking the hint???!! Hmmm, I wonder if she's aware...)

[maeglinyedi.livejournal.com]

Some Dutch readers (like myself) are bound to read the books in English, sure. But successful English fantasy series normally get translated into Dutch (like most of Anne Rice's vampire books). The fact that LKH isn't being translated besides those 3 books definitely says something about sales/quality of her work.

And I doubt LKH is aware of it. Holland is just a small market on a global scale, alas.

[slayra.livejournal.com]

But it wasn't just Holland. At least Spain, France, Germany and Russia seem to have stopped publishing. Same with Japan. They might just be late, though.

[maeglinyedi.livejournal.com]

Germany is still publishing the translated versions, but they are behind on the series. I just checked amazon.de and it seems that the German translation for Burnt Offerings is coming out this september. I couldn't find anything later in the series than that in German.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

This is going to put a serious kink in her "Oh, the Americans are just too Puritanical to deal with my edgy, sexy, awesome books!" argument.

(I hope.)

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Mediterranic blood, some say. *grins*

[slayra.livejournal.com]

I did a book cover search once (merely curious how the other covers were designed) and Germany was the only country that published NiC. It's possible that they and other countries are just late, but I don't think that is it. From what I know:
Spain: books 1-3 (series was dropped, I think)
France: books 1-9
And many other countries are the same. My country hasn't published any but then we're still stuck with the classic fantasy genre.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

Totally, totally off-topic... I kind of like the French covers (http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/images/2265078824/sr=8-13/qid=1178816392/ref=dp_image_text_0/402-2857671-4044110?ie=UTF8&n=301061&s=books&qid=1178816392&sr=8-13)! Sort of modern, sort of classical painting-y...

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Nonconsensual sex is a recurrent fantasy, but I disagree on the repressed. I think many people (mostly women) have such fantasies and not all of them are repressed.

Well, true, can't really make a blanket statement that every woman who has noncon fantasies is repressed, it just seems to me that it's a fantasy that appeals somewhat more to those who have control issues to start with. Then again, I could just be speaking for myself. :P

And yes, the "dubious consent" does make sense...and totally fits the whole fantasy theme. The reluctant bride kind of thing, which actually seems to thread through a lot of the old romance novels my mom used to read. You know, big, strong, handsome and slightly brutish male hero, soft, fragile, virginal female heroine, she's reluctant, he "knows what's good for her", it starts out with "no, don't" and ends with flowers and fireworks.

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Oh. Oh, I misunderstood, sorry. *blushes* I thought you meant sexually repressed. As in, people who are all goody-too-shoes and then... BANG, they have kinky and 'dirty' minds. But, yes, people with control issues (in daily life) may very well be the ones that have those kinds of fantasies. Makes sense. ^__^

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. Personally I dislike those kinds of romances. Tried Christine Feehan (a popular paranormal romance writer, I think) but I hated the hero and heroine exactly because of that. I like romance novels where the heroine has a backbone and while the hero is a handsome (and inteligent) rascal he is also open-minded enough to change and to see the error of his ways. I like both of the protagonists to be inteligent, assertive and active participants in the action, not those 'man goes to battle, woman just sits home and is pretty' kinds of books. But I guess a lot of people do like them as they are still quite popular... go figure. ^___^;;

[slayra.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't exactly understand either (I dislike being told what to do and how to think... but that's just me), but there are a lot of inteligent, modern women who choose that kind of life for themselves. And as long as they have a choice that doesn't really bother me much, just the fact that, you know, I don't really understand.

Don't know if you ever saw 'Mona Lisa Smile'... it's a bit like one of the female students that was very inteligent and could have a great career but she chose a simple life, marriage and kids. It's all about what makes us happy and comfortable I guess.

As for me, I couldn't see myself living that way, I think I'd go crazy if I couldn't spend the money I wanted on books. *grins*

[vmisery.livejournal.com]

Well, actually I think it's applicable for the sexually repressed, too, though not all cases, of course. I'm trying to talk in tendancies and likelihoods rather than sweeping generalities and pigeonholing. :P I think for someone who's had a great deal of guilt and shame associated with sex while growing up, rape fantasy makes a safe outlet for desires that they aren't comfortable expressing otherwise. Removing control removes guilt and responsibility. LKH is a great example of this, since her "good girl" characters only experience what she views as perverse pleasures against their will, which means they stay good girls even though they're really doing a damn fine impression of a public utility.

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

I would say dubious consent is a perfectly valid fantasy, but when it comes to stories based around it, most readers aren't looking for a simple description, which is what LKH writes. What separates the good ones from the bad ones is the focus on the dynamic between the characters. LKH gives us none of that, jumping straight to "Look! Sex!" Boring.