Small mention about LKH's books

[missingvolume.livejournal.com]

http://www.publishersweekly.com/blog/400000640/post/260033826.html?nid=4381

It is down at the end of the article


Queer male characters are starting to pop up in other areas of mainstream paranormal romance; queer female characters, not so much. A Laurell K. Hamilton fan mentioned to me recently that the steamy scenes in her books include pretty much every possible sexual configuration except for women willingly having sex with other women. Is this because queer female characters might put off the straight female majority of Hamilton's readers? Is it to deliberately eschew those porn stereotypes of women who perform same-sex acts for the enjoyment of men (stereotypes so often played out in portrayals of female vampires, who inevitably end up looking like Renaissance Faire rejects or caricatured dominatrices)? Or is it that in the end, paranormal romance still harkens back very strongly to the romance novel tradition? Is there room for queer women in mainstream paranormal romance, or is the market just not ready for it?

Comments

[phyrra.livejournal.com]

I would think that there are a great deal of bisexual women who read LKH's books. However, 'queer' relationships have been in fantasy for a long time. I can remember reading about lesbian relationships back 15-20 years ago in Mercedes Lackey's books.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Well, they say that in school girls on the whole focus more on words than boys do, whereas boys in general prefer being shown something than reading about it.

Perhaps this persists later in life. Television and movies are areas in which men dominate; maybe men prefer to see two women having sex, rather than reading about it? And because for a long time there was a paucity of m/m love affairs on screen--the Hays movie code made that all but impossible for a long time, and even when gays were allowed, they were often depicted as stereotypes or jokes--I think that women learned to take what they could get where they could get it. And those would be gay books from underground (and later, small or speciality) presses.

That said, it's not true that every sexual configuration shows up in LKH's books. Though most of her male characters are stated to be gay or bi, they never seem to touch each other or have sex with each other, at least not onscreen. In fact, there's at least one m/m couple that has been in love for over a century...but they aren't having sex because Anita-LKH doesn't want them to.

Two guys not having sex because of pressure not to do so? That's not revolutionary; it's reactionary.

[eldestmuse.livejournal.com]

I suspect it has something to do with the target audience.

The "mainstream" is usually more geared toward males, where f/f is more acceptable, whereas books by women for women like much of romance or paranormal romance or even most urban fic, whereas m/m is fine because the homophobic male audience isn't as likely to be exposed or squicked out.

But, as a later commenter stated, MLackey did f/f as well as m/m without really anyone batting an eye at it.

[telaryn.livejournal.com]

In my admittedly anecdotal experience, straight women are some of the most vocal "slash" fans out there - they love to read about the "pretty boys kissing", which is something LKH clearly has no problem providing.

I think if an author, again like LKH, were deliberately trying to eschew stereotypes, they would either avoid the question altogether, or be a little more overt about the reluctance factor. In the few scenes I've read by LKH the problem is not so much the reluctance factor, it's the complete and total lack of understanding how two women have sex with each other. It's clearly not her main interest, so like with a lot of things she doesn't bother trying to understand the mechanics of it.

[pith]

I definitely don't think it's "deliberately eschewing porn stereotypes". Merry's scene with Maeve was much enjoyed by the menfolk (Merry's, that is), and we've often commented here about how Merry and/or Anita "need" to have sex, but rarely have sex for fun, while the men involved just get to enjoy. Merry's constant desire to have one of her men come in her mouth? A lot of guys would love that.

Personally, I think questions like Is there room for queer women in mainstream paranormal romance, or is the market just not ready for it? are.... not quite rhetorical, but something close. There is room, obviously. Someone just needs to do that but in a genuine way. A lot of us have said we wanted to see more of Sylvie and Gwen. The audience is there.

[plum-arden.livejournal.com]

I honestly did not know there was really a sex scene between Anita and Belle Morte in whatever book it was until I read the snark here. Either I totally was skimming by that point, or it was just so poorly written that I missed it.

I would have no problem reading a f/f scene though. Or m/m for that matter. And I will fully admit that my m/m reading experiences are limited to Poppy Z. Brite's books, mostly because there is no "free time" in my life right now to read anything. Yes, yes, sad I know, but life is against me like that. ;)

Anyway, for me, as long as it's well written and doesn't feel awkward, like it's thrown in to be trendy or shocking or whatever. If it feels right for the plot/story at that point, go for it. And LKH using every position? Yeah, ok. It's just slight variations of missionary, isn't it?

[missingvolume.livejournal.com]

Little nitpick Riley's brother is her twin so they would be full sibs.

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

I just found these lists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_characters_in_modern_written_fiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_characters_in_film,_radio,_and_TV_fiction

[rebootfromstart.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call the novel I'm working on romance, since the relationship angle definitely takes a backseat to the action/mystery aspect, but my main protagonist is bisexual and she gets with a girl in the end.

But then, I don't intend to write out the sex scenes, partly because I know they would not be great and do not want to lower my writing by including scenes I know I can't do justice to.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

The only other position I can recall is doggy style. To me, the men having Anita underneath them and on her knees feels like LKH is allowing Anita to be constantly dominated in sex.

[xarra.livejournal.com]

*amused* They get Stefen & Vanyel, and miss Tylendel... While I know it says only main characters Tylendel is a pretty main character!

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

Kinda two different things to comment on -- first, I agree with the person uplist who said the f/f bias in the visual arts vs. the m/m bias in writing may very well reflect the audience dynamics (men are more into visual stimulus, women more into the written); I think it also has to do with cultural expectations. I know several lesbian or bi female friends who are constantly frustrated that society doesn't take their relationships seriously because two women can't *really* have sex, a relationship, etc., there must be peen involved for it to count.

Pesonally, I've been really enjoying the fan reactions to Torchwood -- a lot of fanboys were raving and drooling over how hot the bisexuality in that show was . . . so long as it was confined to f/f. The minute there was a m/m *kiss* onscreen (nothing more), said fanboys ran screaming and traumatized from the series. God, that was funny.

Anyway, speaking as someone who has written a lot of fanfic (including, yes, slash), I think different people are better/more comfortable writing relationships -- especially ones where there's graphic "onscreen" sex -- that jibe well with their own orientations.

I find het relationships and m/m relationships relatively easy to write about, even at a fairly graphic level (proving, at least to me, that the "straight men like f/f and straight women like m/m" phenomenon has some validity . . .). I have nothing against f/f relationships (and wish there were more of them out there that weren't so obviously designed to cater to *male* tastes -- getting back to Torchwood, I had high hopes for Tosh finding a nice girlfriend . . . but I digress), and I wouldn't at all mind writing a f/f relationship at up to a PG level. But, if I'm being honest, I'd have a hell of a time writing explicit f/f.

For me, it's not a squick issue so much as a difficulty wrapping my head around the characters' motivations and really, er, getting into the scene, if that makes sense. If I can't get to the point where I'm feeling what the character(s) are feeling, the words really don't write easily. Though At some point I should probably challenge myself to really give it a solid shot, to stretch my writing skills . . .

*Any*way, what all that tl;dr is getting to is that I can kinda understand why LKH shies away from f/f -- since she keeps going on about how straight she and Anita are, etc., I can sympathize with that part. What bugs me is that a) she seems to add a layer of squick to f/f ideas that's really unpleasant and unfair, b) she seems to find m/m hot -- more power to her -- but then chickens out on really doing anything with it for no apparent reason (besides that it'd give her male characters something/one to focus on that isn't Anita and that's OMG HERESY!), and c) that she's all about *supposedly* challenging boundaries and all . . . but she won't challenge herself as a writer to do anything radically outside her own comfort zone.

*eyeroll*

[gehayi.livejournal.com]

Tylendel's name makes me think of Tylenol. Which is undoubtedly not fair, but true.

[obsidianwolf.livejournal.com]

I agree with others it's probably partially market as the books are aimed primarily at women.

I mean I personally find most of the portrayals of gay men insulting in paranormal romance.(but then I'm not the target audience) In general they exist to be a novelty to show how open minded the lead character is or in a lot of cases such as in the Anita Blake series they exist so one very special woman can turn them.

[wyrdmuse.livejournal.com]

Completely off topic, but I think I love you for using and spelling the plural of dominatrix properly.

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

I love watching Torchwood with some of aforesaid squicked fanboys when there's a big Jack/Ianto scene on. They squirm, I laugh. It feels like payback for all the f/f porn I've had to sit through with Significant Others who thought it was super-hot, and either didn't care that I got really bored really fast, or else told me there was something "wrong" with me cuz it didn't turn me on.

Muahahaha! Revenge is sweet.

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Emma Holly does m/m and m/f/m that isn't too painful.

[moonsinger.livejournal.com]

I think if the book is romantic in nature and well written that it simply doesn't matter what sex the couple (or group) are. Personally, I prefer m/f, f/f, or group stuff, but if it is written as well as Mercedes Lackey's Vanyel/Tylendel (Stef) then I like m/m. Generally, though m/m isn't my preference, and I wouldn't write it into detail. Detailed sex scenes I could do m/f, f/f, group--no problem.

Overall, I've been told that I'd have a hard time selling my fantasy series that has a female protagonist who falls for a woman. I'm still writing it. I must say though that all of my other main characters are straight. I want to sell something.

[wyrdmuse.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Feel free to steal if you'd like. No need to credit either.

Poor 24. :(

[othellia.livejournal.com]

IAWTC. Like you I like het, yuri/femslash, and OT3s/4s/whatevers, but yaoi/slash just doesn't turn me on. It's always annoyed me how in most fandoms you're expected to take the yaoi/slash fic in stride, and yet the femslash is basically nonexistant. *shrugs* I guess it's just a matter of tastes though.

[moonsinger.livejournal.com]

I take it that yaoi/slash is M/M?

I don't get the straight women liking m/m thing. I wonder if anyone has done a study on that sort of thing.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I take it that yaoi/slash is M/M?

Yep. I normally just use slash and femslash, but I'm not entirely sure whether slash applies to just m/m or homosexuality in general. I've never actually seen the word "slash" used to describe f/f though so... *shrugs*

I don't get the straight women liking m/m thing.

Neither do I, but a lot of women seem to like it. Back in the days where I only read het, my best friend, bless her heart, was convinced that I had not yet read the right slash fic and would one day come to my senses enjoy it. After many unread fic recs she finally asked me if I would still like one of my favorite ships if one of the characters was gender-bended. Unsurprisingly, my answer was "no" if they were both guys and "yes" if they were both girls. I think I really confused her. (Since then she's backed off about the subject... slightly.)

[moonsinger.livejournal.com]

I don't have a problem with m/m though either. It's just not my thing.