Thank you for mentioning Holly Lisle

[britpoptarts.livejournal.com]

Today I'd like to give some acknowledgement and thanks to members of lkh_lashouts that recommended that disenchanted Laurell K Hamilton readers should try reading books by Holly Lisle. I can't say I was ever a huge fan of LKH but in her earlier books (at least in the Anita Blake: Vampire Humper series), she had laid some good groundwork by creating an alternate universe populated by fantastic mythological creatures and laws and rules, albeit one that had to be created in the mid-1980s and which apparently remains stuck there to a great degree. I found out that the curious reader can tell which books might be worth an hour or so of your free time by looking for those where she thanks and acknowledges a writer's circle / beta readers. Books that lack this nod to a circle of apprently helpful peers are, in a word, self-indulgent. (Read: excrement.) For a comparison, note the change in Anne Rice's books after she, too, decided she did not need an editor or peer reviewer.

In fact, I think I'm here mostly because I am ANGRY that LKH squandered her universe and her characters the way she has, and that she apparently no longer bothers to proofread or accept criticism and suggestions from peers OR fans. It's almost like she died and a much less-talented hack who getsd of on vamp porn took over and started using her fame and fan base to sell crap. I am REALLY angry. I am also saddened, because she had the opportunity to leave a written legacy of some worth and creativity, and the tipping point where new, bad work far outweighs old, passably fascinating work has long since come and gone. In the past few years, drawn as if by a roadside accident, I have checked some of her newer books out of the library, mostly to see if it could possibly get any worse. Let's just say that I fantasized calling her publisher and offering my services as a proofreader, as I couldn't believe they actually had one oif they'd let these books go out as is. I was underemployed at the time, which made that seem like a good idea. Upon further reflection, I realized that I would hate my job and hate myself for taking it if I did, in fact, have to wade through one of her UNproofread books. Can you imagine?! Gawd!

I read books 1-3 of the Lisle's World Gates series (and there may only BE three, but it does not say "trilogy") and Talyn yesterday and today. As for my reading habits, well, I read almost everything, and fantasy novels more often disappoint me than not, so I can't say it is a genre I love unreservedly. There are few Terry Pratchetts / Neil Gaimans and many Laurell K Hamiltons in the genre.

Lisle creates logically consistent worlds and sympathetic characters. Even the "bad guys" have depth, or are permitted to seem positive at first. Some bad guys have the chance to be redeemed. Some "good guys" have conflicted morality. Her writing style is tight and clean and engaging. Her dialogue, even when using an invented vocabulary or language, is crisp and exemplifies "show, not tell". Characters have the opportunity to grow, make mistakes, die (albeit not always permanently), make sacrifices, be noble, and to have a sense of humor. Unlike LKH, whose books have steadily become more unreadably pornographic and unsexy simultaneously as time goes on, and which have had less and less plot, Lisle doesn't use sex scenes to titillate. In fact, I may misremember, but I believe two of the four books I read had none, and one book had one that was tasteful, and the last book had a reason, a plot line, character development, crisis point and so on that made the scenes important to the plot, if not vital. I don't think the character development would have been as neatly done without writing about it.

So, there you go. Author recommendation acknowledged and appreciated.

And: hello, I'm new. I went back through August or September and commented on some old threads, but this, if accepted, is my first bulletin post.

Comments

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

I happen to avoid Holly Lisle because of her opinion on fanfcition. But it's good to know that there are people who find her refuge from LKH. This means she will not be first against the wall come the revolution :)

[catskin.livejournal.com]

I read her Sacred Texts trilogy (I think that's what it was called - Diplomacy of Wolves? Vengeance of Dragons?) and loved it, but I've never seen any of her other books in my town's shops. What else has she written?

[foxfire74.livejournal.com]

the last book had a reason, a plot line, character development, crisis point and so on that made the scenes important to the plot, if not vital.

Funny you should mention that. When I read Talyn, I got to the first sex scene and just cringed - the sex plus the first-person narration made me tell my husband "Great, one of my favorites got bitten by the LKH bug." I kept going and was very, very pleased to find out there was a reason for the whole thing. Very good read!

Recommendations...well, I enjoy pre-1990s Sheri S. Tepper - who is to politics as LKH is to sex, but if you can find her pre-"All Men Are Useless" books, she's got great worldbuilding and some interesting concepts. Grass is one of my favorite books of hers. People either love or hate Robin Hobb - excellent worldbuilding and stellar characterization IMO, but her heroes have a tendency to angst and/or be really, really stupid, and the ones I love, everybody else hates. *grin* Lois McMaster Bujold's books are always great, including the underappreciated Spirit Ring.

[maiafay.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, might have to check those out...thanks for the rec!

[kathrynthegr8.livejournal.com]

I am currently in the middle of "Tallyn" and loving it. I don't want to finish reading it! I hope it becomes a series.

[stefflebug.livejournal.com]

I read Talyn over the holidays (ok, so I devoured it in a day and totally ignored my partner who was at home with me) and I have to say that I loved it. It was everything that you listed about her works, and so damn engaging.

The best bit for me was the fact that it could have ended part way through, with the peace that had been put in place, but she continued and tied together all of the foreshadowing to a beautiful climax.

Her main character may have been an ass-kicker, but unlike LKH, she wasn't all powerful/knowing/mighty and did infact make mistakes and need more than some help.

I've not read passed Diplomacy of Wolves, but then I had to leave it at my Dad's when I moved out and haven't had a chance to pick it up. I did enjoy it though.

I've also read Fire in the Mist, which was one of my fave books as a teenager, and once again had a strong and realistic female lead.

[erinellii.livejournal.com]

I wasn't too enthralled with the Sacred Texts trilogy, maybe I should try some of her other works?

As for recomendations from this group, I would like to thank the many people who have mentioned the Dresden Files! I just got done reading the last one so far, and absolutely love them. By the third one, I was totally hooked, and I'm now wondering if anyone knows any good fan sites where I might be able to talk about them with someone, lol?