Angry response to Dorkles latest rant

[curls975.livejournal.com]

Since I doubt my post will ever be oked by the mods I shall post it here... I just needed to get it off my chest.

For those who dont know there is a link in raven's post as well as below.

Negative Reader

My response.

I really hate to burst your bubble but nobody really cares. They really and truly don’t. You do more by bringing it up again than leaving it alone. What does rehashing something from A YEAR AGO do? If it was that serious it should have been handled then. Plus there is nothing that people posting on a message board can do. She doesn’t even come here so why would posts like these matter to the general public on this board? We are not the police nor can we police the internet.

 

If this is a board where Laurell's personal business is not up for discussion then please stop posting about it. I don’t care. I really don’t. So far it has been posts like this one that has talked about Laurell's personal life. Most casual readers could give a rip. It’s sad if this is really happening but truly it’s none of my business.

 

I don’t need you to give a justification as to why I no longer like the books and thus do not read them. Nor do I need your permission, if I chose to read them again. I’ll decide what I do thank you very much. Because, if you can follow the logic, I can’t tell if I would like a book if I do not read it. It’s just not possible. And if I choose to read it and then find that I don’t like it, it’s my god given right to say that I didn’t. I paid my money to be entertained, so I bought my way into saying what I felt about the service I paid for. And as such, I have the right to recommend or suggest against people who might want to pay for the same service I received. If a restaurant has horrible food I would not recommend it if asked, and would be likely to tell people to stay clear of it for various reasons.

 

Nobody is haunting the Border’s sci-fi/horror/romance/whatever section smacking The Harlequin out of people’s hands. It’s word of mouth from reader to prospective reader. If a prospective reader hears that a book is all sex and little plot, its up to them to decide if that sounds like a good read or not.

 

It’s silly to assume its just the sex that turns both former and prospective readers off. It could be the stagnant plotline, annoying characters, lack of focus, ridiculous power surges, females shoving sexist ideals down others throats, the over use of rape as a CPD, few strong female characters other than the lead, no real powerful or smart villain, a female lead that plays victim, weak vampires, werewolves, etc that have to seek the aid of a human, no real stable or reliable universe rules, no real competition for the female lead, no real connection to the real world that it seems to be modeled after, plotlines and characters that are dropped and forgotten about, preachy sermons by the lead character, or weak male characters used as punching bags by a power bloated self righteous female lead to name a few off the top of my head...

 

What I will say is instead rehashing old topics; EVERYONE should stick to the rules and not talk about Laurell's personal business (1b). Most readers that are fed up stop buying and find authors that are worth their time and money. And if they want to talk about how unsatisfying the LKH books are that’s their right. It’s called criticism and last I checked nobody is above it. Saying what they hoped would happen and what they don’t want to see any more is common practice. Last I checked analyzing what was pleasing and what didn’t work in a book is called a literary critique. Not a personal shot at the author.

 

By posting information that has nothing to do with the general readership you just give in and give attention to the crazy ones. People that attack children, are not in the same boat as those who don’t like the direction of the books. The acts of crazy people that cant get a grip on reality, separate real life from fiction, and move on from a failed storyline are not tied at all to readers who have negative things to say about a story they read. Again, if her child was physically or verbally attacked there is nothing that we here on the board can do. File a complaint at the local authorities and let them handle your “stalker”/”attacker” but this topic just seems extremely personal.

 

These are my feelings as a reader, customer, and former fan. Though my tone can be taken as harsh (I have been told) I don’t say any of this with a bitchy attitude. Take this post as you will. Though I doubt it will stay up.

 

Thank you

 

MB

Comments

[tenaya-owlcat.livejournal.com]

I can’t tell if I would like a book if I do not read it.
This is the first thought that popped into my head upon reading the forum post. But that's logic, and logic has very little to do with anything. ;)

Laurell and crew would hate me... I review books. >)

[easol.livejournal.com]

Me too. At amazon, where I have toasted all post-Narcissus books, and will eventually get around to rereading and reviewing all the earlier ones.

[tenaya-owlcat.livejournal.com]

At the Davis Enterprise (http://www.davisenterprise.com/), my local newspaper. Unfortunately, they've changed the format of the website, and I've been told that my columns will only be up for a week or so before being taken down again. :/ But I have a column the third Thursday of the month, in the Entertainment section.

I'm also working on a website. Hope to have that up soon...

[curls975.livejournal.com]

i'm pretty sure i'm banned after this...

but i should get a nice cabin out of it so its all good. its not like i post over there anymore

[easol.livejournal.com]

:D Mebbe we should put it on a geocities page. :)

[cicipsychobunny.livejournal.com]

My God, people, the rules don't apply to Team LKH! Just people who say mean nasty threatening things! Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.

An excellent post. How did you manage to pack so many good points into a mere seven paragraphs?

[curls975.livejournal.com]

lots of practice. i spent years trying to get them to see that getting all huffy and acting like twits is not the way to argue a point.

present your opinion and back it up. dont just speak out of your ass.

after you present your opinion be ready for it to be picked apart and discussed. if that bothers you dont post in the first place.

*shrugs*

[vlredreign.livejournal.com]

That was a rant of beauty.

I bow to you.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

why thank you. its been a while since i fired off a LKH induced rant...

i felt rusty at first but then i let the irritaion take over LOL

[no-ron.livejournal.com]

i second that..

[sharkbytes.livejournal.com]

*golf claps* Well said, and thought it'll probably fall on deaf ears over there, your reasoning is sound. Given the amount of vicious snarking I do on LKH, I clearly agree that whether they praise or criticize, everyone has a right to let others know what they think.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

i used to be at the top of the snark group :D

not really snark, but i like for people to prove their point when they say something. even if the reason is "because i like it". that makes sense to me.

but you cant aruge facts with "because i like it". just because you like a big heaping pile of boring sex in your books doesnt negate the fact that its plotless. thats a fact.

[shadwing.livejournal.com]

And if Trinity was really threatened...law enforcement would be a first action not a last resort. I mean your CHILD'S LIFE is at stake now, and what does this lot do? Write a ranty post on a MESSAGE BOARD. GAH!

[curls975.livejournal.com]

if trin's life was, or even just her general well being was really and truly in danger, i would expect and welcome a rant from LKH about it. i would stand behind her as she flames every person that dared to attack an innocent child.

so far i've just seen that idot come on and try to link the negative response to her lackluster writing to what an alledged "attack"/ "threats" towards LKH and her child.

attacks on LKH and her writing is a totally different thing from attacks on LHK and her writting.

but to the deadweights over at the board ar simple enough to be brainwashed into thinking they are the same.

sigh

[shadwing.livejournal.com]

Agreed, however if she really DOES have a stalker, posts like the one Darla put up could in theory make the situation worse. Stalkers crave attention of their targets, even negative attention, it can excellerate the stalker to more agressive acts.

While I would welcome a outraged mother rant from LKH if her daughter was threatened, I hope it would come when the situation was safely undercontrol and the stalker in custody.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

LKH outlines exactly why she posted her Negative Reader blog and it was because she wandered onto her board after a night out with friends, very much ready to be worshiped by her troo's and saw criticisms.

What also happened was that Jon posted directions to their house AND their phone number and some people said that is a bad idea because crazy people might use that info.

The incidents are not linked.

[pandorasblog]

OH. MY. GOD.

HOW DUMB IS HE?

Why would he even do that? Did he want fans to come and visit?

Not to mention that it's a very bad influence on any younger fans... here in the UK there are so many initiatives from the Government, from schools and in the media to encourage parents to warn their children not to post those kinds of personal details on the internet. But if a kid of 14 or 15 reads the forum and sees that her favourite author has those kinds of details up, it becomes a bit harder for Mum and Dad to convince her it's a bad idea, or so I would think...

[easol.livejournal.com]

I don't buy the threats thing, really. If it had happened, LKH would have broadcasted it to the world, along with the latest dog updates and sex life info. If it were for real, they would have contacted the police immediately.

Darla is trying the oldest method in the book of reaping sympathy.

Oh, and this snarky reply is deep and intense win. I bow.

I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[world-of-eos.livejournal.com]

O-kay. If it is in fact truth that the Negative Reader rant was born of threats made against Laurell and her family, than I can't say I blame her for writing it.

It was still a bad idea, and it was poorly written and incoherent to the point of obscuring it's original intention, but we're all pretty aware that that's how Hamilton rolls. Darla's recent post is also a bad idea - at this point the best course of action would be to ignore the fuck out of the rant and hope everyone eventually forgets.

That being said, it's poor taste to basically tell someone (albeit through their voicebox "assistant" on a messageboard) that "nobody really cares" that a person and their family were threatened.

"If it was that serious it should have been handled then." Did you miss the part where Darla says:

We chose to err on the side of caution and have them dealt with. There are those who were involved with the making of threats and ended up unhappy with the fact that law enforcement was called in, who also took it seriously also and acted accordingly.

It was handled. They called the cops. The cops found out who did it and there were repercussions. Again, it was handled poorly by Team LKH, but they rarely get things right the first time.

And one more thing: "Though my tone can be taken as harsh (I have been told) I don’t say any of this with a bitchy attitude."? I call shenanigans.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

but honestly i dont and why should you. you dont know this person and you dont know the person who supposedly did this. its not poor taste. its fact.

you hear some kid you dont know is being harassed and you go "my god thats terrible." and move on with your day. unless you know/do something that is helpful to stopping said harassment your being "upset" by it does nothing. so why post it in the first place. she wasnt asking for help. she didnt ask anybody to alert authorities with new info. she just rehashed the authors personal business yet again. useless.

and i didnt miss that. i said if its that serious handle it then. not a YEAR later. rehashing the same post with new old insults does nothing. and again, all of this is NOT. MY. BUSINESS. its not like you can actually talk about this post because it falls under rule 1b. its just dorkles spreading LKH's personal business out to people who dont care.

if anything its in poor taste to advertise that her child is being attacked. thats the type of stuff you keep in your personal circle.

and one more thing: it wasnt a bitchy attitude, but when dealing with people that would group that plays the victim a lot you have to make yourself clear.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[world-of-eos.livejournal.com]

I didn't say it was poor taste when your heart fails to bleed for every overheard misfortune. I said it's poor taste to go up to someone and tell them "Nobody cares that you and your loved ones were threatened with bodily harm." You went on a message board and told someone that it doesn't matter that their loved ones were threatened because it was a year ago. That is poor taste.

And you know what? I do care. Just because I'm not wailing and gnashing my teeth and rending my garments in despair doesn't mean I don't care. I read about the threats and I winced. I don't like Hamilton, her writing, or her bloated sense of self-importance, but I can sympathize with the fact that being threatened sucks especially for the innocent non-book-writing parties.

"so why post it in the first place." "rehashing the same post with new old insults does nothing." Because Darla is trying - in her very special, ham-handed, ungrammatical and ultimately ineffective way - to try and quiet the people who are still muttering over the Negative Readers blog. The gist of Darla's blog entry is to explain why Hamilton posted the original Negative Reader blog entry. She's doing a shit-poor job at it, and I have no problem with the parts of your rant that address the insults dished out by both Hamilton (in the original Neg. Readers blog) and Darla (in the rehash). But at no point did either Darla and Hamilton ask anyone from the forum to be Junior Deputy and catch the culprits. It was intended as an explanation for the motivation behind the Negative Readers blog.

"i said if its that serious handle it then. not a YEAR later." Darla's post does not mention when the authorities were called in. For all you know, Hamilton could have called in the cops before she ever wrote the Negative Reader blog.

"its just dorkles spreading LKH's personal business out to people who dont care." Actually, she's posting to the Laurell K. Hamilton Forums, in the thread entitled "Laurell K. Hamilton," where people who are interested in Laurell K. Hamilton would go to find out stuff about Laurell K. Hamilton. The majority of people who are on that board would in fact care about the threats against Hamilton and her family, because they are fans.

"if anything its in poor taste to advertise that her child is being attacked. thats the type of stuff you keep in your personal circle." It is never a bad time to speak out about violence - actual or threatened - against anyone, especially a child. Threats and intimidation should not be hushed up.

And it was a bitchy attitude. To be bitchy is, according to the dictionary, "characteristic of a bitch; spiteful; malicious." It is spiteful and malicious to tell someone (even if they're already being bitchy themselves) that nobody cares that their family has been threatened.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[world-of-eos.livejournal.com]

Holy balls, that was a monster. o_o

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

mmm... i see your point i just so dont agree.

it just seems like another attempt to rip open a can of worms that has been quiet for a while. its done. its over. it should be old news. so what a few people are talking about it. its their right to. you bringing it up does nothing.

and as for the whole trin attack thing. it is in poor taste. she wasnt "speaking out against violence" she was fishing for sympathy. there is a difference.

speaking out against violence is "trinity was verbally/physically attacked and this is not acceptable. people who do so will be punished" fishing for sympathy is "see this is why you negative readers are bad. trinity was verbally/physically attacked. and its cause you negative readers dont like sex".

you post a moderated thread on a subject that nobody can comment on, and fan fires that had died out. you insult readers but pad it with a reasoning that its ok because you have the right to because LKH and co were "attacked". its not needed and petty.

its not malicious or spiteful to say that i really could care less about some stranger and her child. its the truth. i dont see why i should care. does she care about me... dont know... dont care. she gets the common level of "oh how sad/bad/whatever" and then its on with my day and my own daily problems. handle yours and i'll handle mine.

i will say that the only thing i can agree and accept is that i should not have said "nobody" because that groups people into my own personal belief. instead i should have used the singular "I" dont care.

if they dont want people to comment on their business they shouldnt post it. plain and simple. what you may see as bitchy, i see it as telling you my truth.

but thanks for the definition. learn something new everyday. :D

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[pandorasblog]

Yeah, that sums it up for me... the thing about Team LKH is that when we read their stuff we have to filter it into:

a) What their ill-chosen words said
b) The message they intended to get across

And I'm willing to criticise their way of getting that statement across and their usual tendency to accuse the wrong people and conflate disappointed fans with dangerous weirdos, but I'm never going to criticise someone for being upset that their family got that kind of disturbing attention. I can't imagine anyone coming right out and saying, "I don't care that this happened to you" in other circumstances, and I think we have to be careful not to tar every aspect of the Hamilton clan's lives with the crappiness of the books.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I find it more honest to say 'I don't care if your child was or was not threatened by someone on the internet' then to pretend you do care. I would empathize if her kid was hurt but I don't confuse that with giving a shit. Trying to make someone feeling bad for not caring about a made up net threat a year after it happened is lame.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[pandorasblog]

I guess that's where we differ. I don't think it's a case of "either pretend to care or come right out and say you don't". I just wouldn't go out of my way to tell someone that I didn't care. Because... if I didn't care, why get involved to that degree?

But again, I think the whole thing is influenced by the fact that it's her of all people, with all the baggage of how she's treated the fans.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

i think that to a certain extent there was no "going out of my way" because really... if you knew me or were familar with my posting style on the board... you would know that this is how i talk. both in real life and on the web.

thats an EDITED version were the sharp razor like comments were removed. i know i speak harshly. thats how i am. i dont feel the need to pull punches. i dont feel the need to sugar coat. i dont go out of my way to be mean, i just tell you the truth as i see it. mean would be saying you deserve it.

you drag your childs problems out for a sympathy vote, dont be suprised that i dont care. you dont want your child being talked about... stop talking about her so much. you dont have to say much. a simple "me and the family are doing great" or praise her when she has done something amazing "trin is going to be going to harvard. i am so proud i am telling everybody" type deal.

LKH was the one that put that child's daily life up for public discussion when she posted it on her blog. that is not her personal diary. it supposed to be a public place to journal about her books. real life stuff that pops up on a small level is cool. but hearing about how jon and her are looking for a "thrid" is gross and unwanted.

there is a good way to keep your private life private. dont talk about it. plain and simple. because even though i dont really care about it, some crazy might just latch on to it and run wild.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[pandorasblog]

Well, I agree with you on the putting-one's-child-in-the-public-domain thing. I have more respect for J.K. Rowling in this regard - a few years back she sued a magazine because they'd printed long-lens photos taken of her and her daughter, without their knowledge, when they were on holiday.

Since she'd never put her kid in the limelight, and had gone to particular lengths to avoid having her photographed/her face known, the judge found in her favour. Whereas in the LKH case, I think that Jon's bizarre decision to post their family's address and phone number on the interwebz does indeed make it harder for them to kick up a fuss if people are interested... (by which of course I mean curious, not violent).

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

Posting you don't care about a subject Darla invented isn't exactly going out of anyones way here. I still find your argument to lame as it boils down to (now) 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything'.

I don't care about Trinity, which doesn't mean I wish her harm in any way, I just don't care about where she's spending the weekends, how much sex she interupts, how happy or sad she is in her daily life. LKH needs to stop writing about her, that's the solution. The solution isn't I should start caring about a stranger that has nothing to do with me.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[roguetailkinker.livejournal.com]

I agree. Nobody says you have to care, but to get in somebody's face and inform them that you don't care- well, the nicest word I can think of is snotty.

Not to mention the fact that if you really didn't care, what's the point of writing a long ranty-rant about how much you don't care? Why waste the effort on something that doesn't interest you?

Personally, I don't care about a lot of the stuff she blogs about, but if she or her kid is being threatened, that is a problem. Yes, they called in the cops, but it's still amazingly stressful.

Re: I'm a genie in a bottle and this did not rub me the right way.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

why waste effort... because i want to. i didnt say i dont care about my opinion. i said i dont care about some stranger's kid. why write a long ranty rant. because i can. i felt like it. i wanted to.

nobody said i have to care about that kid, but nobody said i couldnt say what i thought and what i felt about that long ass diatribe. and i felt like saying i dont care about your personal business and i would really like it if you kept that business personal in the future.

if her kid is being harassed or physically/verbally threatend that is not my business. if she wanted to come on the board to say that her kid was threatened by people on the board and she wasnt gonna have it and those people are now banned. that makes sense. other than that... keep your private business private if you dont want people talking about it.

[no-ron.livejournal.com]

what i can't seem to wrap my mind around is were this whole alleged harrasment bussiness ties in with the 'Dear Negative Reader' blog.
wtf?
where is there anything in that classical gem of a wank that even suggests it's triggered by malicious attacks of personal nature on the integrity and safety of LKH's family? did i miss something?
that blog very clearly says what it wanted to say. that's a fact.

trying to associate it with this harrasment incident now, a year later, seems like a smoke screen. and it's unfortunate that they used it for this purpose..

[duchym.livejournal.com]

yes, you just expressed my own feelings and thoughts perfectly

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

I doth believeth you winneth the interwebs!

Bitchin' post and it said it all.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

*bundles up her prize*

why thank you XD

[manekikoneko.livejournal.com]

I'm scratching my head over the balls Darla has to compare LKH to Mercedes Lackey; read the post she linked, and you think, "OMG people, perspective! LKH had some people criticize her and you indirectly liken it to Lackey having freaks who insist they and she are characters from her books, and who want to worship/overthrow her?" That is comparing apples and marshmallow peeps, kiddies. If LKH thinks that her situation is comparable to the one Lackey describes, she ought to worry more about the people who still like the books.

[curls975.livejournal.com]

to be perfectly honest i have seen harsher things said about trin or in reference to trin on the authors own blog than anywhere else.

as far as i have seen most readers, be they fans, former fans, or plain haters have never looked kindly on those who comment on trin. their havent been any post in either web forums or book sites that have allowed any room for one to think trin was being attack. or that it would be an acceptable way to express dissapointment towards the books.

so its not as if its this runnign herd of trinity haters bashing at every turn. it was, if its true, a solitary incident. by one maybe two crazy people. but i highly doubt things happen the way they are being presented.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Same here. I can't remember seeing anything nasty about Trinity online -- of course there may be some crazies who don't post publicly. But mostly, people just seem to say, "Poor kid."

[mm_madb]

I wonder if that's what they're talking about, actually. Saying "Poor kid" implies that LKH is not a great mother and doesn't take care of Trinity.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

Well, you see when I think of Trinity and say "Poor Kid," I have three reasons.

1. Her mother's a New York Times Bestselling smut author. I think she's nine now? Once that comes out of the closet and she hits high school... Let's just say that many high school kids aren't very nice.

2. LKH has said that the name "Trinity" actually came from the triumvirate between Anita/JC/Richard. No comment is necessary.

3. Well... One and two should be enough.

[mm_madb]

Oh, I'm not saying that there isn't any reason not to say poor kid! I'm saying that LKH probably thinks that saying it IS an attack against her.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

Ah, that I can see. Just wondering, but is there anything out there where LKH believes someone's attacking Trinity/her parenthood? Verbally, that is. We already know LKH believes people are out to get her physically. If there was, a link would be nice.

For that matter, how did Trinity pop up? Was there something in Darla's post about her in the whole "evil people are threatening us" section. The whole thing was so long, that I mostly skimmed it.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen anyone post negative things about Trinity besides LKH. In fact, if LKH joined this 'hater' community she would be told to shut up about Trinity.

Trinity was never threatened. It's just a load of bull from Darla. These guys are liars who need attention.

[nightangel486.livejournal.com]

Yeah, part of me wants to give the benefit of the doubt, just because I'd like to think that they wouldn't stoop that low just to cover their asses. At the same time, I went back and re-read the Negative Reader blog, and aside from her sounding utterly baffled by the fact that people like us would continue to read and critique her books, I can't really see any hints of "omg I'm baffled by how people hate my books so much that they'd actually threaten me and my family". She seems the kind of person who might not go into details about such incidents, but I think that while she was expressing her bewilderment over lashers like us, that she'd at least tack on some sort of comment about people even going so far as to threaten her out of hate for her work if such things had occurred, especially if they'd happened near the time she was writing the blog.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

The choice is either LKH lied in her blog about why she wrote it. If she didn't want to explain why she wrote it then don't - don't make up lies about happening to see negative posts.

The other choice is Darla is lying now about the reason.

There is another choice that I'm personally going with after having read LKH make up stuff about her books, motives, characterizations, history, etc ..and that is they are both liars.

Lots of times when you dislike someone for a surface reason (like not liking someones writing) you find that you do like the person after getting to know them a bit better. The opposite has happened for me since getting to know LKH and her associates better.