Read the newest Merry Gentry recently...

[eve-from-oz.livejournal.com]

I've blocked most of the details out of my mind/forgotten them as completely irrelevent but one thing did stick in my mind...

(below cut for spoilers)

Apparently the 1 sperm, 1 egg that splits or 2 sperm 2 eggs to make twins rule doesn't apply in Merry's universe. Is this because she's superspecial or could anyone have one baby with more than father??

Comments

[drho.livejournal.com]

I don't even know how she can justify three fathers for one baby, but I didn't major in biology like LKH.

[atypia.livejournal.com]

Comment of WIN!

Your prize? ONE INTERNETS.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I always thought that you could have two different men fertilize an egg, but the egg would split in two and become fraternal twins.

Wait... I thought fraternal twins were from two separate eggs, one from each ovary. Because, if I can remember, once an egg is fertilized that's it. It closes itself off from the prospect of multiple fathers. And then the egg is a single cell to begin with, so I don't think it can split before it's fertilized...

But then I have to remind myself that this is LKH, and I shouldn't even begin to try.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

No, you actually can have a twins from two fathers, because in rare instances, the egg hasn't shut off yet, and the mom has sex with another guy soon enough to add to the fertilizing process. It's just that the egg will split, one for each sperm, and the each child will bear chromosomes from each father.

Wow. I guess you really do learn new things everyday. XD But that in itself is just... weird. (Or am I being too much of a prude to accept this rare occurence as the wonder it is?)

Hmm... And rather than kangaroo, I'm thinking of a shark... or was it a whale? Anyways, I know the females of one kind can store sperm after sex and then impregnate themselves when there's right conditions (lots of food and the whatnot). I'm pretty sure it's shark...

[no-ron.livejournal.com]

i'm not sure i ever heard of the final stage of egg splitting once more.

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

Ya know, I didn't read the book to know the particulars. And I'm not even sure if you are asking if anyone in Merryverse could have more than one father for their child, or if anyone IRL could.

But something just tells me the correct answer is always - "Yes Virginia. Merry IS that superspecial." ;)

If you meant in the real world, my logical but non-biology-majored mind votes No. There can't be more than one father for a baby. And I doubt you could have twins with different fathers without in vitro or something. If we could, it would have been a cliche on soap operas and in romance novels long before now. And paternity suits would be a riot.

[dan-lian.livejournal.com]

If we could, it would have been a cliche on soap operas and in romance novels long before now

I know I've read about it a fair number of times, especially using the "one baby is white, one baby is black" pattern.

In the book, evidently Merry gets knocked up and the baby has multiple daddies. Which, of course, means that there will be *two* kings and Merry gets to be Queen.
I think. I stopped reading when she started after book 3.

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

Oh hey... now that you mention it I think I do remember stories like that on talk shows and such about fraternal twins with different fathers. I'm relieved it didn't become an overused plot device after all. I didn't give the world enough credit. ;)

I've only read the first Merry Gentry. Good grief. I can understand bending the laws of science for good fiction, but bending logic this far just so Merry can have a harem is not what I call good fiction. Thanks for the heads up!

[silent-sybil.livejournal.com]

Which, of course, means that there will be *two* kings

Um... six, isn't it? :P Three fathers per baby times two babies is six "kings." (Pretty small, though-- I'd imagine Merry would feel restricted with such a small harem...)

[dan-lian.livejournal.com]

See, I never actually read the book; too damn scared. I didn't know she was doing *three* fathers per kid x2 kids.

[silent-sybil.livejournal.com]

I just read the summary someone posted here. :D Those have been more than enough for me, lately!

[jerel.livejournal.com]

According to my (admittedly paltry) research, it is possible for fraternal twins to have different fathers. Sperm can live several days in a woman's body, so if she has contact with different partners during ovulation, multiple eggs can be fertilized. The medical term for it is heteropaternal superfecundation. The opinion of the medical community is that we're hearing more about it these days because more children are being subjected to paternity tests.

I did read a bit about chimerism, in which a fertilized egg can be fused with an extra sperm--but 3 fathers is still medically impossible. Because as someone pointed out above, that's too many chromosomes. For a human.

I think my Jack icon works for this one...

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

This thread made my brain hurt. lol Thanks for the research. Now I can wrap my head around it, but still... I am glad I don't read MG.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

It was a total cop out. LKH didn't want to narrow the men down to the one that Merry would have to be faithful to (remember, the Fae have only one mate. Merry drummed that into the readers in the first book). With twins, three daddies each, that's six kings that Merry can have and no reason to give anyone up. And how much do you want to bet that she'd have her own Ravens who service only her.

[shadwing.livejournal.com]

What...LKH...sticking to continuity? *shockshock*

No "I am Queen so I can have as many Kings as I want!" Dues Ex Machina?

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

You're right. what was I thinking! Shame on me! Shame, shame, shaaaaaaaaame.

[anycah.livejournal.com]

Now, now it's not a "cop-out," it's Merry being very special, edgy, and a trailblazing norm-breaker that's going to change Fae Society. Or something stupid like that. Like her kid is going to be the bestest Fae ever because of the five million chromosomes and everyone will know that it's the best way zomg.

*rolls eyes*

[plum-arden.livejournal.com]

Fraternal twins are from different eggs, that is how you get male/female twins. Their DNA will show they are related, but it is not identical as it would be if they came from the same egg, hence the term "identical twins." And, yes...they can in fact be fathered by different men. Oh, the things I have learned on Maury. ;) He had a woman come on with fraternal twins (boys...but they looked nothing alike), and of course just like every other woman, she was swearing up and down that this man was the father of her babies. Maury gets the results, when it came to baby 1, he was the father. Baby 2, nope, not the father. Luckily, they had someone stand up and explain it.

Yeah, I'm an English major...I just happened to have worked in a Genetic Toxicology department of a company for about 2 years, and asked about DNA testing once. :) All the rest of the time, they had me chained to my desk.

To sum up

[rozasharn.livejournal.com]

Women usually release one egg a month. Unfertilized eggs do not divide.

Each egg can be fertilized by exactly one sperm. There is never more than one sperm into a single egg.

If that one fertilized egg divides, the result is identical twins. Or, if it divides several times, identical triplets/quadruplets/etc.

Sometimes both ovaries release eggs, for a total of two eggs. Each egg can be fertilized by one sperm each. These two sperm may be from the same man or from two different men. In either case, the result is fraternal twins.

Very rarely, fraternal twins join together and become one embryo, with part of the body have Twin A's genes and part of the body having Twin B's genes. This type of baby is known as a chimera.

The Merry Sue scenario would call for releasing six eggs at once (unheard of), which were fertilized by six different men (unlikely), and then combined three-into-one (unheard of).

Re: To sum up

[darkese.livejournal.com]

Add to that theory that one of the men doesn't even have vaginal sex with Merry to impregnate her. He did it by blowjob - that's one determined, armored and compass-using sperm.

Re: To sum up

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Does that mean that Merry has a hole that leaks sperm from her stomach to her uterus?

Re: To sum up

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I prefer to think that his sperm is so tough it punched its way through. KAPOW!

Re: To sum up

[dementedsiren.livejournal.com]

OK, I've lurked in this community for almost a year and said nothing, but I couldn't remain silent after this comment. This is the comment (and thread) that wins at the internets. Congratulations.

[allova.livejournal.com]

I like your theory. I like it a lot.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I don't know... I'm still partial to the "Merry is a shark" theory myself. *see above thread*

[rin-x-x.livejournal.com]

She used the horrible excuse that it happened in "mythology". That makes my want to spit venom into her eyes. It demeans everyone and anyone who uses mythology more than "false stories" (incorrect translation btw).

She copped out, pure and simple.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

What's ridiculous is that I remember the first interview with her that I ever read - couldn't tell you where it is now - and the interviewer asked if there was a magical species that she wouldn't use. Her reply was "centaurs" because she has a degree in biology and the concept of a half-human, half-horse is too implausible.

And now she's using mythology to defend this travesty of a plot device?

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

Centaurs everywhere were relieved, I'm sure.

Seriously though, she shouldn't blame mythology for her crap.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Because we all know that centaurs are totally unrealistic, whereas werewolves and undead sexy corpses are VERY scientifically realistic. Remember, she's got a biology degree! From a very prestigious matchbook cover!

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

But but... Long song Horsey man! I mean if Frost's a fricking deer, what's so ihndefensible about half horse / half man ---

*the room spins, sits down*

Oh dear. I was expecting sense and rationality again wasn't I.

Bad Willow.

Bad.

Also up above someone said 'Deux Ex Machina' and all I could think of was 'Deuses Ex Babina.' - Gods of the Baby?

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Why does she need half-men half-horses? All of her men are ALREADY hung like horses.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Some are hung like Oliphaunts.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I stuck centaur and LKH into google and got http://www.twoheadedcat.com/content/article.php?articleID=31

She said she would use centaurs in Merry but not Anita. She comes off as a real bitch. When the interviewer asks who her personal hero is she says herself.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Someone needs to flog this shit. If nobody else does, I will!

Does the term "tool" apply to women as well as men?

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Ah, there it is. Thanks for the correction. It was so long ago, when I first started reading ABVH and the concept of Merry Gentry meant nothing to me. Come to think of it, it still does...

[fadeinthewash.livejournal.com]

Hey, wow, she actually says she reads books! Other authors' books, even.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Course, isn't the only fantasy there someone in her neglected writing group?

[rin-x-x.livejournal.com]

Pot. Kettle. Black. Thats all I can say.

Almost makes me want to tear out my hair.

[knowthyself.livejournal.com]

I only read the first book. Now I'm stupidly curious. WTF happens in the latest book exactly that this god-awful question ended up being asked? (not knocking you for asking, knocking her for causing it!)

[rozasharn.livejournal.com]

All is explained here: http://community.livejournal.com/lkh_lashouts/299679.html#cutid1
Obviously, the link leads to spoilers.

[shadowbloodwing.livejournal.com]

Oooooookay, why am I suddenly very glad I don't read the MG books?

Could be that my choosing to major in art instead of biology has made me stupid and prudish, but I'm sure there's no way for one baby to have three biological fathers. Two is unlikely enough. o___O