Newb here.

[droa.livejournal.com]

Hello to the group! I've been reading Lashouts for about two months now, and just want to thank you all for providing so much interesting (and funny) content. I discovered the AB books about six years ago and wound up devouring all of them before realizing... hey, what happened to the plot? To the interesting (if not necessarily brilliant) characters? How did the violence drop in favor of gratuitous sex without me seeing a ton of red flags? Needless to say, Lashouts has been a happy discovery.

While I no longer read the books -- my collection stops at Bloody Bones and I just catch up on the rest by skimming the new ones at B&N -- I have to admit that I am very fond of the world and mythology LKH set up for AB. Although her characters have never done much for me, Anita's world just seems like a damned interesting place, inconsistencies aside.

I don't genuinely think that LKH can ever restore the Blake-verse series, but the thought of trying to recover or improve it has always interested me. What I wanted to ask is this: Do any of you, as disillusioned readers, feel that it's even remotely possible to make the AB series readable again? (I exclude Merry's world because she's a born Sue.) What do you think it would take, and would it even be worth the time or effort? Hell, what would you do, given the opportunity? Myself, I've had to compromise with my fondness for the AB-verse -- I've stopped reading the books, but a friend and I wound up initiating a non-canon RPG so that we could try our hand at reinventing the wheel sans ardeur or Anita's vagina.

Comments

[sharkbytes.livejournal.com]

Well hey and welcome to the group :)

You know, I've thought about that question quite a bit, and I might be in the minority but I do think the series is salvageable. It would take a LOT to do it, but it is possible. (Maybe a mea culpa from LKH, thinning of the herd, getting rid of the ridiculous ardeur "plot" device, having Anita make some actual decisions regarding her goals and her profession, a few character deaths, etc.)

But that's a different question than if it will be done, which I don't think is possible in the near future because LKH is making a lot more money now than she ever did. She just doesn't have any incentive to make things better at this point, considering the sales and accolades she's been getting.

[droa.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the welcome.

My opinion is that I don't believe LKH can salvage her series. Mind, this is not because it's past salvation -- it'd be difficult to "fix", sure, but by no means impossible. It's just, as you said, the woman's books have taken off like a shot. She is doing exceptionally well, so why change things now?

Personally, from reading the blog flogs here alone, I don't particularly care for LKH's thoughts nowadays. But after two months of reading posts and comments, the fanbase here on Lashouts fascinates me. Everyone seems to have at least one interesting thought on LKH's works, and so I'm deathly curious to know what we as jaded, snarky readers would do. :)

[sharkbytes.livejournal.com]

I'll have to dig it up in my documents, but a fellow lasher and I concocted a 13-point plan for fixing the series that was actually really cool. If I find it, I'll post it up~

[fangedsekhmet.livejournal.com]

I'd be very interested to read that, if you can find it:D I hope point one is a mass slaughter of everyone but Anita (though that might work better) and Ronnie.

[zombiexbunny.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'd like to read that as well.

[viridian5.livejournal.com]

If it turned out that Anita's power-ups, arrogance, and indiscriminate orgies were a sign of a breakdown or her being used by certain members of the St. Louis monster community (Jean-Claude, perhaps?) and that she'd only been humored all this time, and that Anita finally saw it and through determination and hard work fought free of it and faced the consequences.

Not that I think it will happen, since the impression that LKH's blog posts give is that LKH thinks Anita is right, everything is great as is, and all the sex makes the series "edgy."

[droa.livejournal.com]

My biggest compulsion nowadays is to find a way of asking LKH why she thinks people like us are so in the wrong without her mentally translating it to "Oh, they're jealous and the story's great".

The way LKH presents her stories nowadays -- she's BFF with her characters, can't kill anyone, Anita has a hundred boyfriends, etc. -- strikes me as more suitable to fanfiction. She does not seem to understand that, like it or not, when you publish your work and gain a readership, you are writing for your fans as much as you are for yourself.

Although I'm not a big fan of Jean-Claude, I really dig your idea of him being the great manipulator. He was presented as such a dick in the first book, so I never felt comfortable with how much he softened to Anita, and vice versa.

[viridian5.livejournal.com]

She surrounds herself with yes people these days.

A lot of Anita's problems started with Jean-Claude's marks and this whole thing about her being his human servant, so it makes sense that he's enabled her slide. She's more useful to him the way she is now.

I never understood how he softened to her either. He started out as a dick and creepy stalker type.

[ladyvy.livejournal.com]

I exclude Merry's world because she's a born Sue.

Some would argue that Anita was born a Sue as well. It just wasn't as obvious with Merry. Let's face it... LKH doesn't know how to make a realistic character to save her life. I understand that she writes in an AU. But the point of it being a good AU is that you think what happens to the main characters in the SL could happen REALISTICALLY. Anywho, welcome to the fold. And like you... I'm more of a lurker. I don't think I've ever given myself an intro though. LoL.

[droa.livejournal.com]

To be honest, it's that RPG I mentioned that made me get around to writing an intro. It's made me put a lot of thought into what I like about the AB-verse, and what I think could be removed without compromising the cool stuff. I was originally going to ask my game's players, but the community here just seemed like such a better opportunity. :)

Re: Merry v. Anita, I bow to a really good point. Anita is and always has been Sue-ish, can't really argue that. In LKH's case, though, I tend to base things more along how much sex she's written (since it seems to be her favorite thing), and Merry jumped right to the shagging whereas Anita hemmed and hawed. So really the fault is on me for being vague. But I totally agree otherwise!

[pith]

I think it is fixable but, as someone else mentioned, that's purely dependent on LKH's willingness to change it, and considering it's stupidly popular now (why, gods, why?), I don't see her messing with her formula.

Things that would help:
- trim the cast list. This doesn't have to be by deaths. Characters can move away to make their own pards/packs, be exiled, whatever.
- trim Anita's power arsenal. I'd love to see Anita stripped bare of ALL powers, even if only for a book.
- have Anita lose. Not all the time, but some of the time.

There's probably an endless list of what would help. But the biggest thing that would help is for LKH to change her mindset. Take constructive criticism seriously. LEARN HOW TO SPELL AND PUNCTUATE. Realize that a "negative" comment is not the same as a "mean" one. Stop being so high on herself. Of course, none of those is likely to happen soon :/

[droa.livejournal.com]

Unrelated, but oh, the icon love. That's beautiful.

I dare say that your list of three are probably the most basic and practical. While I really enjoy a number of more story-based suggestions, yours are the ones I'd love to see implemented more than any. It's just a pity that's not likely to happen.

[pith]

I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't ;) (Yours is lovely too. Yay Death!)

There are a lot of things I think could help, but some of them are very subjective, so I was trying to make a list of general things that most people agree on, even "happy fans".

I think what would help the most is probably something that someone else has already mentioned: LKH needs to surround herself with honest, intelligent, talented, objective people. Just like the author shouldn't wear too many hats, neither should their loved ones. Depending on Jon and Darla for editing advice and research clearly isn't working. She needs objective opinions--people who will be honest but... kind (for want of a better term) about what needs to be done. By all means, praise what's being done well, but you have to give the same level attention to what's NOT working too.

[dameruth.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't think (unless LKH has a sudden change of goals/vision) that the series as canon is ever going to go back to being the Blake!verse we knew and loved.

My usual "fix" is fanfic, similar to your RPG. If one's of a writerly bent, it can be tremendous fun. I've no plans to write anything AB, myself, but if I were to, I'd probably declare all of the most recent books to be some bizarre fever nightmare of Anita's while she's unconscious near the beginning of NiC. She wakes up, *doesn't* have massively OOC shower-sex with Micah, and from there on out it's a whole new world (literally). Cheap cop-out, yes, but it's a handy place to put the reset button, I think.

After that, I'd like to see Anita and Richard grow up, stop being such drama queens, get some therapy and/or prozac if need be (there have to be vamps or shapeshifters out there with psych degrees), and give becoming a *functional* triumverate with JC a real shot. They're already *bound*, they're stuck together for what could be a very long time, and they all have serious responsibilities to others, which should provide some kind of incentive for them to pull their heads out of their butts and try to make their situation work. At least in the early stories, Anita and Richard do have some kind of affection for/sense of noblesse oblige towards people who depend on them.

I rather picture JC (who is old, experienced, and eminently practical) taking a much more active part in trying to get things to work -- and he knows how to manage/manipulate people or he wouldn't have survived and ended up as a Master of a City. He could very likely punch the right buttons in the others if he put his mind to it -- especially given the connection of the vampire marks and the triumverate, which would give him a lot of insight into the others' personalities.

It wouldn't all be smooth sailing, natch, or fluffy bunnies of lurve, but if the three of them could pull a respectful, *genuinely* poly alliance/relationship together, it would benefit them all, and they could be one hell of a force: working for a shapeshifter coalition and vamp rights -- and, with Anita on board and acting like an adult (she's young, she could grow into it), they could provide a very powerful human-preternatural legal/social interface. The story/worldbuilding possibilities are endless.

Oh, and I'd ditch the ardeur, and most of Anita's other oddball Powers of the Week; she's already a Necromancer/human servant, that right there is enough power for any character.

*Shrugs* But that's just my take on it. ;)

[dbexx.livejournal.com]

I would love to read this.

[droa.livejournal.com]

Seconded!

Of all the characters, I think I feel the most for Richard (though Ronnie's my favorite). His abilities as Ulfric strike me as questionable on occasion, but the poor guy is just such a mess now. He stomps in, shouts, throws furniture, cries and leaves. What a waste.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Howdy and welcome! I'm glad we can educate and entertain.

I was having a bit of a chat last night about how stuff in AB:VH could be awesome...in the hands of another writer. One that's capable of Doom and PLOT. So to salvage things, I'd pretty much hand it over to a ghostwriter and let them have rocks fall, and everyone dies. Because really, there needs to be some thorough Jossing going on just to get some sort of tension about whether or not the good guys will survive, let alone win the day.

Ditto on MG. Sure, it started out as porn, but you know what? It'd be handy if Merry actually did some of that PI work from way back in the beginning. Again, with a more skilled writer, they could pick up the shredded pieces of interestng potential and weave that into a decent plot.

And if you get a good enough ghostwriter, all this can be done in both series AND keep the heroines sleeping with everyone, ever. A lot of time and space would be saved because I'm pretty sure that not every. single. sexual. encounter would be described in mind-numbing detail.

On the other hand, given the state of things, this proves to be great motivation to me to try and finish something that I think is better. *pets ego*

[droa.livejournal.com]

I vote for you finishing something you think is better. ^_^

To be honest, Merry spun into gratuitous sex-land so quickly that her role as a PI makes no sense to me. I forget it more often than not, and I can't really see how it affects her at all in the books. It's like LKH spun the Wheel Of Professions when penning the first book, and the dial just happened to land on "private investigator".

Rocks fall, everyone dies is a damn fine way of cleaning things up, though.

[rinkori.livejournal.com]

Possible? Yes. Probable? Oh no.

She would have to REALLY want to improve it, though, and IMO even if she realized what a trainwreck the series has become, it would be easier just to end the thing. It would take a lot of work to bring it up to readability again.

[dkphoenix.livejournal.com]

I don't think LKH is doing this on purpose, but Anita has already become Belle Morte, and she's rapidly heading for MOAD-land. The way I see to fix the series would be almost like a reset. Anita keeps descending into monsterhood, to the point that the supporting cast has to take her down. (There would, of course, be casualties. And I think we all know just who they should be.) This book would end with Anita comatose, and a new Council type group formed from the supporting cast in place to make sure she stays that way.

Then, a new series set in the same universe would begin, ideally with rotating narrators to avoid it bogging down into one POV again, some new characters, some old. And Anita remains as a potential threat/cautionary tale in the background.

[bludflower.livejournal.com]

Ooo...I'd totally read that.

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

I would LOVE to read that!

[shimmerfox.livejournal.com]

I refuse to be believe LKH isn't going that way already. The Blogs and everything else she says not actually inside the books is all so we don't see it coming. And the books are set from Anita's point of view so are a bit limited.

*Puts head firmly in the sand, chanting Nah-nah-nah*

Not that this means I need to pick up all the filler books show exactly how far Anita sinks, I can wait till the big blow up.

[dkphoenix.livejournal.com]

I don't think she'd do this because she seems way too attached to Anita to ever take her out. I can't see her killing off any of the main supporting cast, either, with the exception of possibly Richard. (And Ronnie, and Dolph, but they've faded out of what I consider the "main" cast.)

[shimmerfox.livejournal.com]

Well, I can see your point. In fact, in the rational way I'm confident that the person who write her blogs would never do such a thing to the cast.

However if we stick purely to canon, it could still be possible. Maybe...





But regardless by 'refusing' to be believe I already gave up any pretense to looking rational about the subject. If the /author/ is gong to use the story as wish fulfillment then I don't see why I should be mature about her story.

*Puts head back firmly in the sand, chanting Nah-nah-nah*

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I haven't lost faith in the series but in the author. I don't think she has it in her to write anything decent anymore. Even if all her imaginary friends were threatened with non-publishing could she pull a decent novel out of her ass.

Just end it. Give it the best send off you can by killing everyone and start fresh.

[bludflower.livejournal.com]

I just don't think LKH has the mental capacity to fix the mess. It's possible--I've just read plenty of cool ideas here--but she's just not the sharpest crayon. Just from reading her blogs, I wonder if she got her degree from one of those sticker machines at the Kmart entrance.

Considering the "mastermind" behind the books--just kill the series. They'll only get worse, and it'll suck more for those of us who can see all the untapped potential being flushed down the toilet. Sad.

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

Here's my two ideas:

1. Anita becomes the ultimate big bad and Edward takes her out.

2. Anita wakes up one day and she's back to OLD Anita with all her powers stripped away, no ardeur to deal with, no marks, nothing. MOAD somehow pulls this off and Anita freaks out at the condition of her life. She cleans house (literally) and tells JC off (realizing he was the one who corrupted her), apologizes to Richard and goes back to work.

Of course, neither of these ideas will ever happen. LKH won't let it. Nor does she want it.