Everything I know, I've learned from Laurell K. Hamilton

[sfph.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of communities on LJ that exist for the sole purpose making fun of authors. I’ve visited a few of them fairly extensively and found them – in my opinion – extremely disappointing compared to Lashouts. The thing that keeps me coming back here is the fact that with very few exceptions, the people here are extremely intelligent and the conversations that spring up around our dislike of LKH’s work are thought-provoking and insightful. Being on this community has made me think hard about feminism, consent, alternate lifestyles, the effects of fame, mental illness – honestly, I think I’ve learned more from this community than I have from every English class I’ve ever taken put together.

Paradisegirl22’s post would be better directed at a lot of the other anti-[whatever author] communities that I’ve seen. As far as I can tell, we aren’t here because we’re jealous of her success and want to feel better about our own writing [/shameless plug], although that may be one reason. We’re not here because we’re sadistic bullies who only get pleasure from feeling better than others, although it’s always nice to feel superior. We’re not here to insult other people for their taste in books – if we ‘have a go’ at the readers, it’s only because they blindly accept LKH’s every word. We only mind the fans when they swallow, hook, line and sinker the horrifically bad portrayal of alternate lifestyles like BDSM and GLBT, the idea of ‘feminism’ put forth by LKH, the constant portrayal of nonconsensual sex as true love, the idea that you can only be a good person if you live the life that LKH seems to think is best, etcetera.

That ridiculously long preamble was to lead up to a very simple question: am I alone in this? And if not, what does everyone else get out of this community? I feel like I’ve learned a lot here and it’s made me think about a lot of things that really matter, and I can’t help wondering if other people feel the same.

Comments

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

Well, I can say that your reasons are all my reasons. :)

[popelizbet.livejournal.com]

I love lkh_lashouts so much.

[pastygothchick.livejournal.com]

I like coming here because I don't feel so alone.

For years I would have people talk with me about Anne Rice, LKH, and other authors who wrote vampire fiction and I always felt in the minority because I though their books were poorly written.

I also like the fact that the arguments here follow a logical progression most of the time. We don't always just have a feelings rant. There are times, but for the most part there is an order to the thought process.

[yogadog.livejournal.com]

What a lovely post.

Yes, I like to come and lurk and read thoughtful opinions and interesting ideas and good critical thinking. I also delight in a
good snark from time to time. But most of all, I love the
gramarians, the comma masters and those who catch badly used
words.

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

It's fun to laugh and there are lots of intelligently funny comments in this com but my favorite discussions here are the thought provoking ones like you've listed above.

I also enjoy the real discussions about the books. What worked and what did not. What we liked, the characters we liked (or didn't) and why. That is always interesting to me. I think I like to disect stories to see what makes them tick, or what gummed up the cogs. I think a lot of us like to apply things we see here to our own writing.

The book flogs actually highlight what IS entertaining, along with all the wtf stuff. Lots of times the good stuff gets buried under all the unnecessary angst and sex in the books. The recaps edit all that out so it can see light of day again. There are so many ridiculous characters that we forget about people like Eleanor and Edward who are good but get lost in (or are smart enough to avoid) all the dramarama.

Also, I just love the mix of people here.

[deadsong.livejournal.com]

As a professional writer, this community provides me with many guidelines on both what readers want out of a good story and what good, intelligent writers think of story mechanisms, arcs, character development, etc. The discussions that crop up here on LKH's writing and storytelling often help me watch for pitfalls in my own writing--so even if she might not view them as constructive criticism were she to read said discussions, I often apply them as secondhand concrit when I recognize similar flaws in my own work.

Also, sometimes it's just gut-bustingly funny, and I love the wit, humor, and good nature shown by most of the members.

[siedhr.livejournal.com]

We should make a writing community for feed-back and discussion of techniques. Those work best when members e-know each other. I keep looking for a good writers group where I don't have to spend 80% of the time networking instead of writing and commenting. Well, we already have the networking.

[coscov.livejournal.com]

If you find one, let me know.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

Same. Not that I am writing fiction but if I ever do get round to it, this comm and other fannish discussion about writing will have given me a lot to think about.

And yes, I find that this comm *has* made me think more about feminism, consent, sexuality, etc etc too. It's not an all-out Laurell-hating scenario either. People (including me) will give Laurell the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

Plus, the lulz.

[yaoihuntresse.livejournal.com]

Same here, except I'm an aspiring one instead of a professional.

[siedhr.livejournal.com]

Heh, a while ago I wanted to make a similar post about "Why are you here folks cause it's not truly about LKH anymore". I like yours though and I have no regret.

I wouldn't say that I've learned anything, but I certainly had some interesting discussions and I've met some interesting people, which counts as e-time well spent in my book.

I'll say it once more, we should consider making a writing comm since so many of us are writers. And talk about the techniques of better authors and criticize the hell out of each other's pieces. I'm not saying to abandon this one or anything. The lulz are definitely worth it. Can't wait for the flog of Darla's latest, there's some seriously lulzworthy stuff in there.

[wonderbink.livejournal.com]

I'll say it once more, we should consider making a writing comm since so many of us are writers.

I agree with you, so I decided to start one. Just now.

lashouts_writer

Please join up, folks, I need more than myself to talk to! ;)

[morriganscrow.livejournal.com]

Fab idea - have joined.

[coscov.livejournal.com]

Totally joined! :D

[siedhr.livejournal.com]

Heh, I was just about to point you to this post.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

Book recs (both "yes, go read" and "holy crap stay away!") and writing advice and tools. I'm a bit shameful in that I only ever read the one LKH book, and never felt that strongly about it, which makes my attraction to this comm a bit difficult for me to figure out, let alone explain to anyone. But the writing-craft-related commentary is consistently excellent.

[frabjously.livejournal.com]

Your post is excellent :)

[wonderbink.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure how I FOUND this place. I think it might have been a link in fandom_wank, something about a book that got leaked on the intertubes. Anyway, I loved the idea of the comm--a place where people could vent freely about how godwaful the books had gotten--and I signed up.

I think if this place had just been people pissing all over LKH in blithering rants, I would have wandered off ages ago. Instead, there were a lot of lively discussions about not just that the books don't work, but HOW and WHY they don't work.

And some of the flogs have me falling over laughing, I must say.

[rozasharn.livejournal.com]

I like the discussions of plot: what would explain the current plot holes, how the story arcs could be made internally consistent, other bits of world-building an author might put in (like the suggestion that the FBI would be trying to infiltrate werewolf and vampire groups, and who among the existing characters might be deep undercover). And the discussion of consent, power, and how the Anita series would look if it were all genderswapped was particularly thought-provoking.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

I actually considered writing a post like yours before I logged in and saw you had made this! You said it all better than I would have, anyway.

I like it here because I get the feeling that many others on this comm feel the same way about the books that I do. I feel like she had an amazing world set up that had a lot of potential, and what was originally a decent enough cast of characters...but it just went horribly, horribly wrong. I like reading the opinions of other lashers, who point out things I didn' notice/had forgotten, and how the comm keeps me up to date on what's going on in the series so I don't actually have to read that nauseous sludge.

[naeko.livejournal.com]

We’re not here because we’re sadistic bullies who only get pleasure from feeling better than others...

It actually seems like there are several members who are here only to get pleasure from putting Hamilton down and feel better about themselves, sadly.

In any case, I like reading the book snark, and the rare, funny blogflog, and I find it amusing to catch up on news about how Hamilton's train-wrecking her public image.

[slayra.livejournal.com]

I think LKH's books contain a lot of wrong and potencially harmful information about sex, relationships, how to behave in society, feminism and what makes a woman liberated and modern. That's why I am here. Because I want to express my displeasure at the fact that she is putting wrong ideas into susceptible people (not only teens, but even some adults). Books help shape young minds and Laurell's books are dangerous. I'm not saying they should be "forbidden", but there must be something that can be done... like better reseach into the themes that appear in the books or simply marketing the books correctly as adult/erotica books so that kids don't read them as much.

Also, as I said somewhere else I dislike people with inflated egos, especially when they have done nothing to earn the right to have inflated egos. She is a writer of fantasy books, not a life saving doctor or firewoman. I have little patience for people who lack humility of any kind. So I sometimes come for the snark and the blogflogs.

[watersheerie.livejournal.com]

Applause and much cheering, very good post. I enjoy LKH lashouts very much myself, and all the wonderful lashers I have come to know on here. The horrible messages spread by LKH's books, and the fact that her series was once a decent read, are both very aggravating to myself as well. Also, I can't stand the rabid fans that for some bizarre reason tend to flock to the banners of some of the worst books.

[paradisegirl22.livejournal.com]

I joined this community, because I wanted to talk to people about the books.
Now, I know that my first post was off and I did apologise for that,
I did genuinely want answers to the questions put forth, and had no intention of sparking an all out flame war.
I am dyslexic and was rushed when I posted so unlike this post I did not run it through my normal spell check, which did not help.
Thanks to those who could see past that to give me the answers I was seeking.
I did find a lot of the comments informative and very interesting.

[pith]

If you want to rejoin, paradisegirl22, send me an e-mail at the address listed in the profile.

[paradisegirl22.livejournal.com]

At present time my answer to the generous offer made would have to be,
Once bitten,Twice shy!
I may throw the odd post this way,but I think my sense of self preservation will keep me to other boards that are not quite so volatile, as I found lashouts to be.
That is not a direct snark or flame at anyone on a personal level.

Thanks for the illuminating experience

PG

[pith]

Fair enough :)

In Lashouts' defence, you did come here with a very antagonistic post and, from the responses I've seen the community have before, you got off lightly. Antagonizing this group is like poking a caged tiger with a spear and then stepping in its cage: the tiger is going to protect its territory, small as it is, and it's already mad. (There's a Pratchett quote to that effect somewhere, but I can't find it right now.)

[marevas.livejournal.com]

*de-lurks*
I came for the snark. I stayed for the humor and the thought provoking discussions. Plus, I've actually learned on here.

[jazzymegster.livejournal.com]

Actually a lurker. So...I am here for much the same reason as everyone else - I think someone metaquoted a post here a while back, and that's how I found you guys. I had come to realise that the AB books hadn't been as good as I'd previously thought (and I'd totally given up on Merry) - you guys are like my salvation, because I did wonder if it was just me that felt this way.

As pretty much everyone else has said, I like the discussions, and also, as other writers have said, Stuff To Avoid Writing (for future reference at the moment where I'm concerned). Hell, you guys make me laugh (even if I don't comment that much, it doesn't mean I'm not reading).

I don't know if the above makes any sense (apologies if not!), so, in short: ditto what you said, sfph.

[morriganscrow.livejournal.com]

To quote Meat Loaf, sfph - "You took the words right out of my mouth"!

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

I think that LKH's books and career exemplify a lot of what is wrong in publishing and in business in general in the US.

She started out with some interesting ideas, but she's trying to turn herself into a "brand" and writing crappier and crappier crap. And marketing herself as the Wangst!Heroine!

I'm of the Flaubert school--the books shouldn't be about the author's cult of personality. Write like it's your job.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

I'm of the Flaubert school--the books shouldn't be about the author's cult of personality. Write like it's your job.

Nicely put!

[fashi0n-mistake.livejournal.com]

Well I like knowing that I'm not alone in my opinions! It gives me a warm happy feeling!

*grins* I like the discussions too. Though it does make me both amused/sad that we, the dissatisfied former fans, seem to be putting more thought into a series we don't even like anymore than the author currently is...

What I think separates Lashouts from the other communities is the fact that we do more than make fun of LKH (and all the making fun we do is more snarking at her being an idiot).

[pith]

Modly: Thank you :) I know the comm is in need of some fixing in a few areas, but it's nice to get positive feedback too.

As a member: What do I get out of Lashouts? Well, I'm the mod, so I kinda have to be here ;) But aside from that, I love learning about different POVs and such. There are interpretations (good AND bad) about LKH that I never would have discovered otherwise, and you certainly wouldn't see them in a praise-only zone. I think it's important that's by readers, for readers. We don't require academic credentials. You don't have to be a published author. Every opinion posted here is equally valid.

And yes, it is a help with writing. If I wonder if something I've written is too wanky, I often think, "What would Lashouts do to it?" *L*

[thesaneminority.livejournal.com]

I came for the snark and the shared complaints, and I stay for the book flogs, book recommendations, and writing tips I glean from the comments.

[2headed-chicken.livejournal.com]

I think my feelings are best describe as such. When asked by her lying, cheating, no-good asshat of a husband if she hates him, Tara from Kama Sutra says 'I don't love you enough to hate you'. I feel the same way. If I hadn't like the early books I would be indifferent to their slide into bad fanfiction.