Love Triangles?

[raging-muse.livejournal.com]

Okay Lashers I have been inspired to share something with y ou all today. I am officially burned out on books that include love triangles. They just seem to be every author's fave sourse of tension, angst and most of the story plot these days.  I blame Laurell for this trend that is showing up in every second book i come across, and i am raging and crying on the inside cos this phenomeon has made it across the border from the assorted romance genres into fantasy!! Fantasy is not about a love triangle. As far as I can tell when i remember reading books that pre-dated the Anita series i dont recall that many love triangles showing up in books (do correct me if im wrong here). But the Anita books seemed to have started this trend to have a love triangle with a typically Mary Sue type girly in the middle and a werewolf on one side and a vampire on the other?? If anybody remembers this happening before the Anita books let me know!

I am quite tired of this plot device of using a vampire and a werewolf competing for a Mary Sue. Does anybody notice the girl will always pick the vampire over the werewolf in these situations??? Anybody got any clues for that? Cos i know if it were me I'd be going for the werewolf! In the days when i could stomach these types of books I did push for the girl to go for the werewolf - i just like werewolves and would go for the live guy over the dead one. I mean i was going for Richard from the start as well before he went an batshit crazy! :(.  But does anybody find that this is just everywhere now and like me blame Laurell for setting this trend into action? I do like vampires and werewolves and even a triangle if done properlly but now im just so burned out on all 3 things I'm past it now.

Comments

[cicipsychobunny.livejournal.com]

Well, when it comes to just plain old love triangles, they're a fairly classic plot device (Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot springs to mind). The vampire/Mary-Sue/werewolf one isn't something I've encountered, but this is certainly due to LKH having put me off supernatural fiction for life (except Lovecraft, which contains NO love triangles). I'm aware there's one in Stephenie Myer's books, but assumed that was just a direct LKH rip-off.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

It never occurred to me that the SMeyer thing is a LKH steal but I suppose it must be. Everything I read online implies that the stories came to SMeyer like golden tablets from Moroni and she's not actually a reader of such fiction at all, but I suspect that's balls. OTOH, I suppose you could genuinely go "oh, I have created a girl in love with a vampire. Being tempted by a REAL boy would be interesting, but why would she want someone NORMAL when she could have someone SUPER SPESHUL? I know, the other boyfriend needs to be a monster too! What's another sort of monster that's not a vampire? I KNOW, a WERETHINGY!"

[easol.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely it's balls. I suspect that part of it is that she doesn't want to admit that she reads such stuff, even on the sly.

F'rinstance, that whole thing about marble-like vampire skin? Very Anne Rice of her -- I just skimmed an etext of "Queen of the Damned" and found a bunch of references to vampire flesh and skin being like white marble.

[easol.livejournal.com]

(small addition: Not that Meyers is alone in such an attitude. JKR, for instance, has giant spiders and a direct ripoff of the Ford scene, but claims that all similarities are "superficial").

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

What Ford scene? As in Ford the car? What did I miss?

And spiders are just creepy.

[easol.livejournal.com]

No, Frodo challenging the Black Riders at the Ford. ;)

[silent-sybil.livejournal.com]

ROFL. I thought you were talking about the Weasleys' Ford Anglia, and was trying to figure out where in the wide worlds of fantasy that one might have occurred before. :P

[quizzicalsphinx.livejournal.com]

I thought she was talking about Ford Prefect, which if that was the case ALL IS FORGIVEN JKR COME BACK TO ME BB

[surefall.livejournal.com]

After hearing about the story, I always thought it was a Buffy/Angel ripoff. Only with whatever was halfway decent in the Buffy/Angel romance being tossed in the trash and changed to make the luv even more tru.

[raging-muse.livejournal.com]

Yes I have unfortuantly read all 3 Meyer books and there is a love triangle like this in that too - that's what brought me ot the end of my tether on this subject hehe. Altho i admit out of the 3 stupid characters in Meyer's books, I liked Jabob more then then Bella and Edward. (Note: with another author Jasper and Alice could ahve been so cool btw) Did spent alot of time wondering why either of them would even bother with a Mary Sue like Bella but then that's these type of books for u.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

As far as Twilight goes, I'm hopping between Team Mike, Team Billy, and Team Tyler's Van.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

OH, I think love triangles are pretty much the ur-narrative of romance of any kind, so if you have a romantic element in a series the triangle is obligated to rear its head eventually.

Now that I think of it, the werewolf NEVER gets the girl. Even the greatest and most perfect werewolf boyfriend of all time, Oz, got passed over for the opposite sex.

[knowthyself.livejournal.com]

Well to be fair, Oz did sleep with another girl while still with Willow. Not that I don't also love the Oz! But perfect, not quite.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

But it was the WEREWOLF THING!

Agreed, Oz's one mistake.

[surefall.livejournal.com]

Well, he did leave too. I don't think that helped the relationship any. ::oh, how I missed his Ozness::

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It would have been doormattish of Willow to take him back, too, and one thing about Willow was that even though she was geeky and shy at first, she was never anyone's doormat. She did do the right thing. But OH how lovely Oz was!

[eldestmuse.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but the Mercy Thompson series, the werewolf gets the girl, and the "more than one man has a claim on my interest" thing was well done.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

You don't have to apologise, I haven't read it.

[bluebanrigh.livejournal.com]

I remember reading in an interview or blog that Briggs was encouraged by her publisher to include a love triangle, don't think it was originally planned.

I don't understand the vampire over werewolf trend either, in my eyes werewolf trumps bloodsucker.

[eldestmuse.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of vampires as the bad boy you go out with who teaches you that you really should settle down with the nice loyal guy whose ulterior motives are at least easy to understand and not all that morally reprehensible.

That's what it usually comes down to for me - but we know how often romance tries to go in for "making the dangerous boy a good husband" or ends right when you win the guy who we all know is going to be a major schmuck five years down the line. So that's why I think a lot of the time the vampire is chosen as the more "exciting" choice.

But for instance in the Sookie Stackhouse books, I'm a huge fan of Sam, the were-panther guy, and the werewolf guy whose name escapes me. Those are men I'd consider dating, having a life with, talking to. Not the Erics and the Bills and the other creepy creepies of the vampire world.

I'm not averse to the guy being a little dangerous, and werewolves often are (Kelley Armstrong's Clayton Danvers, anyone?), but they're not dangerous in the "sneaky scary badboy maybe bad for -you-" way, usually. Not in the seductive-but-obviously-bad-and-luring-you-in-anyway way that vampires are.

Dunno if that clarified anything. I guess I kinda rambled. Sorries!

[nekojita.livejournal.com]

My understanding of the Sookie Stackhouse books is that Sookie prefers vampires because she can't read their thoughts at all, where she can still get some impressions from shifters. It's not about a 'bad boy' thing.

[eldestmuse.livejournal.com]

Well, she's also progressing to a point where she can sometimes hear thoughts from vampires, and getting impressions isn't so much a big deal as, as she described it "when you're out on a date and you hear the guy thinking things like 'I wonder if she's a blonde all the way down' and criticizing you during sex" ... she's currently (?) dating a were-tiger, Quinn, and isn't having those kinds of problems with him, since getting feelings like lust and anger are a lot easier to deal with than listening to someone's running commentary about you on a date.

She can manage to work for Sam, for instance, where she had trouble with other bosses, because he doesn't broadcast his being a bad guy, etc etc.

She started dating vampires for the reason you gave before she knew about shape shifters existing at all. It's looking like that since the emergence of shifters in the book, she doesn't have a problem with their thoughts and that's not a detriment to their dating.

[alex-lebeau.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a way better resolution: "Dr. Werewolf actually doesn't want me, he just kept trying despite knowing he didn't anymore. So, no harm no foul, I get the Alpha and no one gets hurt." Well. It was something about his wolf side wanting her, not really his human side, and they both decided it wasn't what they wanted. Still.

[silent-sybil.livejournal.com]

The vampire hasn't showed up since book one, though, so it's not quite the same. (She didn't actually show any interest in him when he was there, anyway, did she?) Also, since she's a (canine) shapeshifter, anyway, and was raised among werewolves, they're not nearly as alien to her as werewolves usually are to "paramance" heroines. :P

[quizzicalsphinx.livejournal.com]

In Blood and Chocolate the werewolf totally got the girl at the end.

I am another who thinks that werewolves are way hotter than vampires. What do vampires do? Usually lounge about all languid and bemoan their humanity. What do werewolves do? Sprint around the mofo forest ripping up rabbits and party like it's the vernal equinox. Oh, and sometimes they teach Dark Arts. Which is hot.

[raging-muse.livejournal.com]

I know! I'm always going for the werewolf, the werewolf to me anyway is usually the better character out of all 3 aye hehe. Richard was good to start with aye and I've come across some great werewolf characters over other books who got passed up by the human girl for the vampire. Its always a human girl in the middle as well lol usually a Mary Sue. I mean there might be some genuine really good, well written love triangles out there (Yes the Arthur mess is likely one classic and the Wuthering Heights drama) but the modern paranormal love triangle is just so ugh! lol.

I agree with you on that one actually - it would be more interesting if it was a monster, a human and and human in there and the human winning or the werewolf for once - if written well either scenario might be good. But nobody can write very well anymore. Unless any of u care to proove me wront and let me know of any good books with this scenario in it?

[clover-elf-kin.livejournal.com]

it would be more interesting if it was a monster, a human and and human in there and the human winning or the werewolf for once - if written well either scenario might be good.

Now that's an idea... especially if the main character is trying to balance their normal and paranormal sides/responsibilities. Note I said "balance", not "angst over". XD Though there could be some genuine conflict with "do I like the human more just because he represents the normal, easy life I can't really have?"

[wonderbink.livejournal.com]

it would be more interesting if it was a monster, a human and and human in there and the human winning or the werewolf for once - if written well either scenario might be good. But nobody can write very well anymore. Unless any of u care to proove me wront and let me know of any good books with this scenario in it?

Um . . . working on it? (Novel in progress, currently revising, blah-de-blah.) It seemed the obvious choice to me as I wrote it and it didn't occur to me until this thread that it could be a subversion of the usual expectations.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Same for the werewolf, but I've noticed that the werewolf fulfills a specific role in a love triangle.

Modern love triangles have a tendency to go: woman - perfect best friend - mysterious and successful stranger (who is also probably very broody). The werewolf is usually the best friend figure, who is well-adjusted and in all respects pretty much the perfect match for the woman, but he's not interesting romantically to the viewers, who prefer the vampire figure (dark, brooding, mysterious, normally with a personality like a lead brick).

I saw it all the time in romantic comedies, or really any time there was a love triangle involving two men competing over a woman. It's possible to make the vampire figure interesting, but I almost always root for the werewolf guy because he has a personality. Most discerning audience members seem to feel the same way, but we rarely get what we want.

Werewolves and love triangles; how very interesting....

[cywrain.livejournal.com]

I agree with the earlier comments that brought up the point that love triangles are a fairly common plot point throughout the realm of literature, but the first fantasy book I can recall reading that had a triangle as a part of it was Patricia C. Wrede’s The Raven Ring (1994), although I’m sure it was hardly the first fantasy book ever to add that to a plot. Neither of the love interests for Wrede’s heroine was a supernatural creature, however; she had a choice between a nobleman and a thief. (The heroine was quite pragmatic. I liked her choice.) It’s also worth adding that the love triangle was only a very small part of the plot in Wrede’s book.

The urban fantasy author Patricia Briggs has occasionally blogged about her writing and publishing process. Her Mercy Thompson series is her most popular work, and Briggs has stated that her publishers specified in her writing contract that the Mercy character must have a ‘complicated love life.’ (See Briggs’ webpage (http://www.hurog.com/Patty/faq.shtml), under the question Does every male in the series love Mercy?). Mercy can loosely be defined as a werecoyote, and her love interests are two werewolves.

There was a werewolf and vampire miniseries out in 1997 called House of Frankenstein (well, obviously—the title makes perfect sense) that had a werewolf-vampire-human triangle, but the werewolf was female lead. It’s been years since I’ve seen this, but I don’t remember it being horrible. I don’t remember it being very good, either, though.

[easol.livejournal.com]

I think the Sues go for the vampire because in modern urban fantasy because in their minds:
vampires = pretty, sexy, elegant, vaguely European, tend to keep all that neck-gnawing out of the public view.
werewolves = big, hairy, earthy, possibly smelly, inelegant, never as pretty as real wolves, and show all their supernatural stuff on display.

And yeah, I am sick of the W/H/V love triangles as well just so the Sues can feel ultraspeshul cuz all the menz are competing for them.

[moonsinger.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't credit Hamilton for that unless you want to credit her for writing bad love triangles.

[sandit.livejournal.com]

ITA. Even crediting her with starting an annoying trend is way too close to acknowledging all her claims of being a pioneer in her field and having begun a new genre, etc.

More accurate to say she just writes the same cliches as pretty much everyone else IMHO.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

Well, if it makes you feel better, in the book I'm writing, the girl picks the werewolf (after she stops being such a raging racist). Come to think of it, in most of my stories, the werewolf gets the luvving.

Vampires are nice, but give me a hot-blooded man any day.

[mystoflare.livejournal.com]

I found this amusing, I want to see at least one story where the girl picks the werewolf and sticks with him, rather than "Oh, you're nice, but OMG, the bloodsucker's HOT and makes me all tingly in my girl parts! I MUST DO HIM!", then the poor wolf gets the short end of the stick. :D
Granted, in a story series I'm working on, the werewolf/human/vampire love triangle gets mercilessly spoofed (the human girl isn't interested in a relationship, period, and the werewolf's taken by that point). Heck, how about a love triangle where the werewolf gets some loving, and has to choose between the other two parties?
Even if in my story, the werewolf gets both of them. They're royalty elf twins, and they have fun sharing him between them. The only problem being, they're damn possessive, little bitches ^^

[othellia.livejournal.com]

"Oh, you're nice, but OMG, the bloodsucker's HOT and makes me all tingly in my girl parts! I MUST DO HIM!"

This is so true. XD

Heck, how about a love triangle where the werewolf gets some loving, and has to choose between the other two parties? Even if in my story, the werewolf gets both of them.

Awesome. In my story, the vampire kind of is the werewolf, so he'd get double the love from the people around him too except for he's mostly asexual and like, "I value relationships for the emotional and friendship values. :D"

[clover-elf-kin.livejournal.com]

Hee! I like stories wherein the characters decide monogamy is overrated, and then everyone wins. ;-)

[roguetailkinker.livejournal.com]

YES thankyouIloveyou!!!

Ahem. That is, I agree with that comment. *cough*

[libwitch.livejournal.com]

One thing I like about the series by Patricia Briggs (BloodBound and so forth) is that the love triangle was actually resolved. And it wasn't until it was resolved, and I was shocked that it was, did I realize that "wow, unresolved love triangles happen all too often!"

I don't mind love trianges, as long as they don't drag on and on and on - just straighten them out, one way or another, pick one, pick none, pick all. I don't care. Just do something.