Oh Talia Gryphon No!

[missamii.livejournal.com]

How do things like this get published? I submit to your approval the third in the series written by LKH's former bodyguard Talia Gryphon, Key to Redemption: http://missamii.livejournal.com/4324.html

Gillian Key has a lot in common with Anita Blake. She loves cervix pummeling sex with a bunch of wusses who dress like Liberace. She's an anger-prone basket case who, for reasons that defy logic, has been put in a position of authority. She loves sex of dubious consent. She's out to stick to all the prudes who would question her right to get her rocks off on mentally broken men. Despite how off putting and horrible she is, everyone loves her!

That pretty much seems to be the base-line for being an urban fantasy these days, but what makes Talia more special than most of the fellow followers of the LHK-skool of riting is that she takes her former employer's already horrible tropes and adds to the mix her three times as terrible original ideas.

What really gets me about the LKH-skool of writing is why would uber-fans like Gryphon want to write like their idol in the first place? I mean besides the fact that the post-porn books are awful, but they obvious think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I mean, the hardcore fan culture seems pretty dedicated to the idea of Hamilton as the one true Vampire Porno writer and everyone else is a dirty copy cat. It can't be a case of 'I Could Do It Better' one-up-manship because Gryphon already thinks it's great if all the little butt-kissing shout outs that have peppered the books are any indication. What's the motivation?

Comments

[pastygothchick.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere that Talia Gryphon used to be a licensed counselor in the mental health field so I thought that at least that part would be well researched. I was sicked when I read a few chapters of the first book in the series. Kudos to making it through them, I didn't have the intestinal fortitude.

[missamii.livejournal.com]

You're kidding, right? If that is true, it sure isn't reflected in the books.

[pastygothchick.livejournal.com]

http://www.myspace.com/taliagryphon

According to the blurb on her MySpace page.

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

...MySpace. Right there is a read flag, if ever.

I kan rite n spel...

[booster-blue.livejournal.com]

red*

[missamii.livejournal.com]

If that's true and she really is considered a credible mental health care professional, it makes her frankly disgusting views about rape all the more horrific.

[medicineseller9.livejournal.com]

I'm probably as qualified as her to be a counsellor, as I took a one-day seminar from the Relate counselling service on active listening and such. It's more likely she was someone like a leader of Girl Guides or Brownies to whom all disputes went, or a camp counsellor. She must be 101.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

That also says she's 101.

I'm willing to believe she was an aide in a group home or similar; that's a job with a lot of turnover, and not everyone who does it is the right fit.

[nialla]

How do things like this get published?

From what I understand, she managed to swing a three book deal. Probably due to a combo of her being an LKH protege to get her foot in the door and the publisher hoping to cash in on her being an LKH protege.

Unless these things sold like crazycakes, maybe this will be the last one. One hopes so anyway.

[sidhlairiel.livejournal.com]

Her writing may be eye-bleedingly awful, but I actually really like the cover of her book shown on her Myspace page. Maybe because it is very similar to what I have in mind for my own story.

[missamii.livejournal.com]

It's true. The covers for all three books were lovely. It was good to see a book where the cover model actually resembles how the character is described and doesn't just do the standard butt-shot of woman's body sans head in tight leather pants displaying porn star back tattoo.

But oh the horror inside that cover.

[easol.livejournal.com]

True, the covers are unusually relevant and tasteful for the subject matter. Alas, this is another example where you should not judge a book by its cover.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

Talia has training in the mental health field

I don't think she's ever claimed to have training in the field, just that she worked in the field. It seems so unlikely to me that she was anything but an entry-level aide, because she knows so little about how this stuff actually works. But then again, some people are informed but stupid.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Her website says that she was a former counselor.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

"Counselor" isn't a legally demarcated job title (unlike "social worker" or "psychologist") and many people who worked in aide capacities use that title to describe their work. Sometimes the service organizations even use it for aides: I've seen "Overnight Counselor" job titles used for positions that would more properly have been described as "Overnight Attendant."

[easol.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. New lesson of the day!

I guess it sounds more prestigious than "attendant" or "assistant."

[medicineseller9.livejournal.com]

Therapists and counselling psychologists are specialists. They work in one field only - children, marriage, depression, bereavement, sex therapy. They don't counsel people who are feeling blue and people who can't keep their peckers up, and they certainly don't carry out sex therapy (which is usually relationship counselling) by blowing them.

Breach of trust, violation of the ethics of psychological associations, and the imbalance of power between therapist and patient will screw up the patient even worse!

[sfph.livejournal.com]

Everybody else is expressing the righteous outrage over the material better than I probably could, so I'm going to tackle the clothing.

I was at a club last night, and there was a man there who... to be slightly poetic, is closer to physical perfection than anyone I've ever seen in real life. And at one point, for reasons which were perfectly valid (and involved suspension bondage) he ended up in only a pair of... biker shorts, I guess. Skin tight. Exactly like the kind that Hamilton describes Nathaniel wearing, and tight like I always imagine when all of those urban fantasy authors describe the sexy tight pants that the heroes are wearing. If anybody in the world could pull off pants like that, it would be that guy. And... they looked terrible, even on him.

This leads me to believe that those clothes really just... don't work on real people. It's like the girls I've met who are huge yaoi fangirls, but if you confront them with a picture of two real, attractive men kissing -- rather than their usual effeminate manga-style ones -- they don't find them attractive. It seems to me like Hamilton, Gryphon, Sunny and the like... the sex, and the men, and the emotions that the sex and the men inspire in their heroines, exist only in their heads. They've built up this ideal in their heads of this beautiful man who looks fantastic in a poet shirt and skintight velvet/leather/whatever pants. But not only do they not expect to find somebody who will live up to this ideal (which is good, because no such man exists), but I'm not sure they exactly... want to.

I don't think I'm making any sense, but... consider Jon. He's not an attractive man. From what I've seen (admittedly, he's also about the opposite of my 'type', so I'm biased against him), he's not even above average. He doesn't remotely live up to the beauty of his fictional avatars, and yet... LHK behaves as though he does. Which makes me wonder if she actually sees him the way he is, or if she's gotten so absorbed into her fantasy world that when she looks at Jon -- or talks to him, or has sex with him, or gazes into his not!chartreuse eyes -- that she sees Micah. That she's content with a fictional man rather than a real one, because she's turned the real one into a fictional one.

And if that's the case, it seems like it really does come across in the fashion. Since they're writing about men who are not only fake, but they actively go against reality in terms of their personalities, their appearances, their relationships with the heriones, etcetera, LKH can experiment with what her platonic ideal of a French vampire would look like in the platonic ideal of a leather tuxedo without ever having the danger of being disappointed by a man in the genuine article.

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

They've built up this ideal in their heads of this beautiful man who looks fantastic in a poet shirt and skintight velvet/leather/whatever pants. But not only do they not expect to find somebody who will live up to this ideal (which is good, because no such man exists), but I'm not sure they exactly... want to.

I have seen men who look positively gorgeous in poet shirts and skintight pants. Usually at goth events, and frequently with their (male) partners though :/

I was trying to think of a film example, and the one that came to mind was a truly dire vampire film called Son of Darkness: To Die For II, which was redeemed only by Michael Praed (yes, Robin of Sherwood) in tight pants, riding boots and a frilled shirt. There wasn't much of a plot but honestly? I was watching Michael Praed ;)

I agree about cycling shorts though. No-one ever looks good in cycling shorts.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

I've seen a biker or two looking just fine in those shorts, but then, if you've got the legs and the glutes to pull 'em off, chances are you've never seen the inside of your local goth club.

*shudder* At least not my local goth club...

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

Cyclists look great in them, on bikes. The second they get off the bike I just want them to put something on over them! Of course, I have always hated exercise wear worn for anything other than exercise :)

[easol.livejournal.com]

Yummmm, Michael Praed...

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

All these years and he's STILL purty. ^_____^

[frabjously.livejournal.com]

He doesn't remotely live up to the beauty of his fictional avatars, and yet... LHK behaves as though he does. Which makes me wonder if she actually sees him the way he is, or if she's gotten so absorbed into her fantasy world that when she looks at Jon -- or talks to him, or has sex with him, or gazes into his not!chartreuse eyes -- that she sees Micah.

I think this is a really unfair comment. I'm a type of person who stops seeing a person's appearance once I know them well and starts seeing the person. Sounds kinda cliched, but I think we all see our loved ones very different from how they actually look. So if Jon looks like a supermodel to LKH that doesn't necessarily mean she's so caught up into the fantasy to not be able to distinguish fact from fiction. Possibly LKH behaves as he is the most beautiful man in the world is because she actually thinks he is and loves him very much.

[leggomylegolas.livejournal.com]

I just received the second in the series as a christmas present (my best friends and I have a 'worst christmas gift' contest going perpetually).

It honestly makes LKH look good. Stunning. I just can't imagine how anyone could actually like this stuff.

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

I read about two chapters into the first one and gave up in a fit of despair.

They are so incredibly TERRIBLE.

[knowthyself.livejournal.com]

Sex therapist: ur doin it wrong!!!

[easol.livejournal.com]

*rocks back and forth* Ooooohhhhhh, my brain just broke.

I thought I'd recovered from the awfulness of this book after I reviewed it, but all the talk of "mating ridges" and tentacular orgies made it all come blooding back. This book is so bad I'd rank it up there with "eye of Argon."

Spectacular spork, tho.

*Mod hat*

[naeko.livejournal.com]

Since your comments below were posted on the Talia flogs themselves, I'm deleting them. They don't have direct relevance to the community/topic here.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

What really gets me about the LKH-skool of writing is why would uber-fans like Gryphon want to write like their idol in the first place?

I think it's the same impetus that drives fanfiction. Fans read faster than their idols can write, and want more of same, and go and produce it (or try to). Or just that "sincerest form of flattery" thing?

It's not just this pair -- I'd go so far as to say that most artists (good or bad notwithstanding) start out by copying -- dancers or gymnasts have to copy their teacher's steps and moves before they invent their own, painters start by sitting on the museum floor in front of great art or sculpture with a sketchbook and pencils, writers are informed by the styles of their favorites and learn tropes, voice, and techniques, and so on... writing is a learned art just as much as the others, and must (or at least ought to) be practiced.

I'm not at all addressing the goodness or badness of the final product, though. :-D Talent varies.

*blush* I actually loved that Susan Kay book. Possibly because I was 17, and relatively innocent, and the sexy organ music scene went right over my head... XD

[alondra-del-sol.livejournal.com]

I still do love it, I'm surprised it was sporked as from my understanding Phantom fans hold it up there next to Leroux's work. Oh well, I guess it's a matter of taste. ^.^;

[medicineseller9.livejournal.com]

*Applauds missamii for risking her sanity to save others* Welcome back from the darkness. May there be no more evil for you to dredge!

[easol.livejournal.com]

Alas, I think there will always be bad fantasy porn out there -- if not from Talia, then from Sunny.

[missamii.livejournal.com]

Sunny- who was also my pet project until she finally broke me.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Which book was it that finally broke your resolve?

[missamii.livejournal.com]

This one.
http://missamii.livejournal.com/3870.html

Penis Thumbs the Redneck Kama Sutra King finally did me in.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Dear Lord, I'd actually forgotten about that. My brain is bleeding.