Who's in the wrong, again?

[quill-shadow.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking about the way that all of the more sympathetic characters in LKH's books get turned into bigoted prudes or killed (examples: Dolph in Anitaverse, Granny Brownie in Merryverse) and I might have come up with a reason. Laurell is basically writing out her fantasy lives - the main characters are her avatars, and are super-special with incredible powers. Part of her fantasy must be to have people around who care about her and want the best for her, right? And that's what (Merryverse) Granny Brownie and (Anitaverse) Dolph were there for - a family/authority member who wanted the best for her.

The thing is, if you really care about someone, you warn them when their lives are going in the wrong direction (in this case, towards mass orgies with faceless longhaired pretty-boys). Part of Laurell knows that anyone who really wanted what was best for her would try to persuade her not to behave like this - that's why the characters do, or at least show her that they're uncomfortable with what she's doing. It's just that the rest of her is too invested in being the super-special princess to accept their warnings, so of course the fact that they are warning her makes them bad/wrong/evil, and if they can't be ignored, they should be punished for it.

If I'm right, does that make it worse? Or is it just me?

Comments

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

I think she wants the drama of killing off a character, but she doesn't want to kill one she could later use in an orgy scene.

[shiagurl.livejournal.com]

Agreed. She needs to kill off more than 3/4 of the entire cast. Including Anita. Seriously, who even remembers them all? She clearly doesn't. She's made more than one mistake with characterization, not to mention the trainwreck she made Sylvie into.

[polymexina.livejournal.com]

i think she starts out with good ideas, but her refusal to let her babies grow means that any characters who'd force them to do so are automatically bad.

[yaoihuntresse.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I just wonder if she has a hate-on for women in general that it's being reflected in the other females like Veronica and Grannie that LKH has to destroy them before they become competition or take away time from her self-insertions.

That is a good theory. Maybe it's a subconsious thing that these characters say these things because maybe LKH knows deep down inside that spoiling her characters at the expense of the male ones is wrong and their character assassinations are a way of admiting to this hidden truth.

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

I believe that Dolph, Ronnie, Grannie, and the others are all avatars for the Negative Readers. The repeating argument with these characters and Anita or Merry's response sounds very much like the one their creator used in her letter.

I know we're supposed to stay away from discussing LKH personally, but its hard to read that blog, then the books and not see the striking similarities.

I think LKH is trying to defend her characters through her characters. "The Voice of Reason" characters are probably not regarded in the same light by their creator as those of us who agree with them.

It is surprising that Jean Claude seems to be falling into the category of "The Voices of Reason." I have thought for some time that Anita and LKH were bored with him.

[djmayhem-aubrey.livejournal.com]

It is surprising that Jean Claude seems to be falling into the category of "The Voices of Reason." I have thought for some time that Anita and LKH were bored with him.

Of course Anita/LKH are bored with him. They have Micah and Nathaniel and Damien, the 'yes men' in Anita's life to play with and create a 'home' with. =/ And she has the power over THEM, whereas she has no power over Jean Claude. Not really, anyway, he is still the master of the triumvate with Anita and Richard.

[djmayhem-aubrey.livejournal.com]

*triumvirate

[denelian.livejournal.com]

this, by the way, being (IMO, other may think differently) *THE* worst thing that Anita has done...

she spent all that time to convince Asher to stay, she has sex with him, she says things she never says to anyone else, etc etc. she fucks everyone in sight at the drop of a hat. she refuses to do the things that might allow her to *not* have to fuck everyone in sight. she is vain and spoiled and demanding, she embarrasses JC on a regular basis, to the point where MOST of the vamps not in St Louis openly say that JC is not Master of the City, *ANITA* is. she ignores JC, she ignores Asher, for weeks on end except when she needs to "eat" sex.

and she can't even get the FUCK over herself and let the two men who have been in love with each other for centuries be together while she's off fucking the Werewolf Hockey team?
and ONLY because she is selfish and thinks that homosexuality is "icky" unless it's two guys in the bed with *her*, which is *obviously* not homosexuality because they are only existing for HER, they don't even LOOK at each other most of time...

LEAVE THEM ALONE AND THEM FUCK ALL THE WANT! what the HELL does it matter to Anita if two of way-too-large harem have something together on the side? for the love of PETE (my boyfriend is Pete) GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR SHIT.

[easol.livejournal.com]

They wouldn't. Which is what makes it so offensively ridiculous, especially since Anita is as fun to be around as a flatulent rhino with anger issues.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

yes, Even Then, it makes no sense. until CS, i was under the impression that Asher was more gay than Bi anyway, and that the only reason for his Human Servant being a women was to make it easier for JC...
sigh

[yaoihuntresse.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that's she's a boorish twit, a wanna-be badass who will never be and a mysogynist bully who has no qualms about hurting\humiliating others for saying no to her or just being born with a vagina.

[roguetailkinker.livejournal.com]

what the HELL does it matter to Anita if two of way-too-large harem have something together on the side?

Because then she might not be the center of their universes, and that is Against The Rules.

[mitrian.livejournal.com]

A Werewolf Hockey team?

Oh _damn_ that would be a good spinoff. I'd assume that due to differences in speed, strength, etc., they'd have their own lycanthrope league and not play against "normal" humans. I'm seeing the possibilities now... Werewolves vs Weretigers. Shifting during the game gets 'em thrown into the penalty box.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

*falls down laughing*

oh, yeah - i can see it!

[djmayhem-aubrey.livejournal.com]

This is true. Of course,I'm also of the opinion that they're sleeping with each other behind her back and are just really good at acting otherwise. They've been around way longer than her, so.

But then, you're probably right, LKH probably intends for it to be the opposite of what I think.

[easol.livejournal.com]

She has a funny way of trying to convince us, "Oh, they're totally not having sex! they LOVE Anita too much!" -- naked together and cuddling in a bed, loveresque body language (head on shoulder), etc.

[djmayhem-aubrey.livejournal.com]

I know, right? It's just ridiculous, because it seems so OBVIOUS to me that they ARE having sex. I don't know. =/

[easol.livejournal.com]

It is ridiculous. Basically I think LKH is a Yaoi Fangirl who finds the idea of two men-in-luv strangely alluring, but she can't cope with the idea of them focusing on a character who isn't her. So she tries to give them the trappings without the substance, so she can have everything her way while still having the yaoi sexiness.

[mystoflare.livejournal.com]

I always point to this if people ever ask me why I can't stand to even TRY read the books again. Admittedly, I'm a yaoi fangirl, but damnit, what kind of idiot writes herself into a corner like that? It makes LKH look selfish, stupid and ignorant (sorry, lady, but you can't have gay-man love if they're still interested in women, that's called "bisexual", I believe), and her writing hilariously awful, because her characters are clearly doing something she thinks gives the total opposite idea.

Sorry, it just gets me when people pull an LKH like that. It's downright offensive to people, at the very least, and makes you look like a homophobic moron in denial who insists the world is wrong (a general "you", I mean). If LKH was half as much Srs Riter as she says, she'd let her characters develop, but naturally, she can't handle it when they're no longer wanting to shag her stupid Sue. Urgh.
At least I let my characters be gay as a spring parade if they want. I don't care, as long as it doesn't throw a gigantic monkey wrench into the story I'm trying to tell, and besides, it's not *gasp* their sole defining characteristic! Shocking! */sarcasm*

A little late, I know!

[naeko.livejournal.com]

Just a mod note: You're welcome to discuss LKH personally assuming it's something enlightening and actually worthy of discussion. We frown on people just commenting to say, "LKH is a crazy bitch," or, "The woman is stupid and terrible."

The topic of LKH using her books to live out her fantasies/bash her detractors is nothing new and can be brought up ad nauseam, as long as it's not done with the express purpose of insulting LKH like a bully or a troll. Your comments are well within the acceptable range :)

[sharkbytes.livejournal.com]

I think most of LKH's characters are unchanging, static representations of a group/ideal/obstacle that Anita has to deal with. There are never any surprises because they say exactly what we expect them to say, and do exactly what we expect them to do.

We know that all of the cops in St. Louis apparently have issues with women and inferiority complexes. All of the vampires have some sort of issue with sex and loneliness. The lycanthropes are all comfortable with their more animal selves, and often behave as such. All of the "mundane" humans are mindless sheep, unable to comprehend the supernatural and more than willing to ignore it.

The exceptions are very few and far between: Zerbrowski seems to have escaped being thrust into the typical cop role, ostensibly because his wife keeps him in line or some such nonsense.


We only see these characters through Anita's unchanging lens. She refuses to see anyone as anything other than a stereotype, a group in which they belong that compartmentalizes them in her mind. She's even mentioned it in passing, how people go into "boxes" in her mind, and that's where they stay. Ronnie's the perfect example of this--no matter how close the friendship ever was, Anita had her in a neatly-labeled box that read, "Blonde Devil Who Will Betray Me" and so that's how she wound up behaving. Richard was essentially assassinated as a character when he challeneged his box-label, so to speak.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Heh, very true. People basically predicted all the character types of "Skin Trade" before the book came out -- mean evil misogynist racist cops, evil women, glorified killers, doe-eyed and animal-ruled therianthropes, etc. As for Zerbrowski I can't help but wonder if LKH got him from some TV show/other series, because he really DOESN'T fit into her Mass O' Stereotypes.

"She refuses to see anyone as anything other than a stereotype, a group in which they belong that compartmentalizes them in her mind."

Troo dat! Most recently highlighted in the whole introduction-to-the-cops thing in "Skin Trade." Everything there was about attaching labels to the guys so she could think of them accordingly -- her bizarre befuddlement over a biracial guy (eeks! Can't label him either BLACK OR WHITE-BREAD!) made it painfully and offensively obvious.

"She's even mentioned it in passing, how people go into "boxes" in her mind, and that's where they stay"

Undoubtedly this is viewed by LKH as a sign of how awesome she is. Forget those people who judge others based on their individual characteristics and personality -- better to put them in boxes with labels.

[bludflower.livejournal.com]

"her bizarre befuddlement over a biracial guy (eeks! Can't label him either BLACK OR WHITE-BREAD!) made it painfully and offensively obvious."

Yeah, color me confused... Anita is biracial too, so you'd think she'd just be like, "Yeah, he's mixed. Whatever." *sigh!* Oh, Laurell...

I wonder if Anita being biracial is supposed to symbolize something in LKH's mind as well. Strange that LKH would write such a super-personal character that way, when she's not biracial herself.

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

Anita isn't biracial. She's multi-ethnic. She just acts like she's biracial and that it is some sort of horrible trauma she must endure. The passing for white thing is just horribly annoying.

Hispanics can be black or white by race and have a multitude of different skin tones, hair colors and eye colors. I had a friend in highschool with dark blond hair, green eyes, and pale skin and she was of Mexican heritage. Her sister had tan skin, dark hair, and amber eyes. My sis in law is very dark with raven hair and enormous black eyes. People think she's Arabic and she was born and raised in Mexico.

Anita's hangups with anyone being biracial, multi-racial and multi-ethnic makes me nuts.

Before 9-11 everyone thought I was Mexican. Now they think I'm Arabic. Or Indian. I really don't care one way or the other. I'm just who I am.

But then again, Anita isn't very happy with who she is, is she?

[naeko.livejournal.com]

I'm a full half Mexican; I am only the third generation to be born here instead of Mexico. BUT! I look whiter than white since I stopped going outside and tanning at age 12, and I got all my dad's genetics. I look nothing at ALL like my mother's side, but there are pictures where I look exactly like my dad. People assume I must have pure German heritage, or something, and they do triple-takes when they see me with my very Latin mother or my sister who can pass for white OR Mexican, depending on how she wears her hair and how much sun she's gotten.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would care or even WHY LKH would have Anita mention someone's ethnicity/race in the books. Go with a physical description that gets the point across but isn't flowery and leave it at that. The reader will never picture exactly what your brain has come up with, anyway.

[denelian.livejournal.com]

i'm in the same sort of boat - i'm half-cherokee and half-irish - until i got porphyria, i was so tan that a lot of people assumed that i was part black. some of that was sun; some of that was natural tone until porphyrians started leaching melanin out of mine skin. 5 years ago, i was a white girl with a tan. now i'm so pale i'm "goth". gimme another decade, and i'll look almost albino...

and i love breaking out random stories from the rez. and i have tons. it's so much fun to boggle people - i can't understand why Anita, a character who is supposed to fiercly miss her mother and really resent her nordic-perfect stepmother, a character who was *trained* in her weird special ability by a Mexican because the white people couldn't cope, would *nevernevernever* have a positive story to tell about it!

[the-mome-wrath.livejournal.com]

Technically they both would be multi-ethnic. "Race" doesn't really have any solid definition. There's more differences within "races" than between them (like you have mentioned) which makes solid categorizing near impossible. Also, not all parts of the world define races the same way.

Really, it's just a way to pigeon hole people into neat categories when in reality they don't. Usually LKH does this with stereotypes in her books. Anita's Hispanic background seems to be added only to give her something to angst about and make her "exotic." It's like LKH is jumping up and down going "Look! Anita doesn't fit into that stereotypical picture of 50's suburbia!"

Maybe on some level LKH feels that because she's just white, she's stereotypical with nothing amazing about her ethnic background which would be really sad.

[easol.livejournal.com]

I think that she doesn't like any aspect of herself that she perceives as "average" or "normal.

[fadeinthewash.livejournal.com]

"I wonder if Anita being biracial is supposed to symbolize something in LKH's mind as well. Strange that LKH would write such a super-personal character that way, when she's not biracial herself. "

There's some old interview with her around in which she explains that. Basically, she was bored with being just white in real life, so she decided to spice up Anita with a half-something.

[magdalen77.livejournal.com]

It's strange that if see wanted her character to be something other than plain old white she'd actually have the character act as if she is. I don't mean that Anita needs to be spouting Spanish constantly, but just once in a while mentioning stuff she remembers from her mom and grandma. If she didn'y periodically wangst about it most people would never know. I'm about a half Irish and a quarter Ukrainian and I have lots of stories I share about the Irish grandma teaching me about the folk (we'd leave milk out for them) and selkies and my Ukrainian grandma showing me to make pirogi, halushki and halupki. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that most people didn't have two types of kielbasa for holidays.

[mitrian.livejournal.com]

I always thought Zerbrowski was a copy of Schanke from "Forever Knight".

[sevariusjr.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused.

I thought it was understood that LKH's "works" are just one big Mary-Sue fantasy ego-stroke.

[naeko.livejournal.com]

lol this topic comes up every few weeks and people still comment, so it's apparently still interesting!