Blogflog - International Women’s Day

[blogfloggery.livejournal.com]

Link: International Women’s Day
Disclaimer: This blog entry is verbatim, as originally posted on LKH's blog. Copyright belongs to Ma Petite Enterprises.

I really hate this day because I’m not sure why we need a day to remind us that woman are important. We’re over half the human race. There are almost always more girls than boys born every year. We out number the men. Yet, here we are reminding people that there are women scientists. I knew that as a child. I read about Madame Curie and Jane Goodall was a personal hero of mine. There are women in every branch of science and mathematics. Why is that still a surprise to anyone?

There are women athletes, police officers, soldiers, politicians, weight lifters, firefighters, every job that men can do we do, except sperm donor, and there the men have us, but then we are the only egg donors. It takes both of us to make a new life, a new human being, of either sex.

If all the above is true, then why do we need an International Woman’s Day? Why can’t everyday be a celebration of women and men and whatever sexual determination in between, that exists or may exist in the future? I don’t know, but I do know that I’m still getting asked, “Why do you write strong female characters?”

I’ve asked the male writers I know and they’ve never been asked, “Why do you write strong male characters?” They’ve never even been asked, “Why do you write weak male characters? Or, caring male characters . . . or why do you write male characters?”

It’s 2015, and I think it’s time we all understood that women can be strong, men can be caring, and that whether you make a good stay-at-home parent is more about your personality than your gender. That whoever is more career driven should go out and pursue that career, regardless of whether they are male or female. Just be you – whoever, whatever, that is for you.

I’m tired of things that divide me from the rest of the human race. I’d like to embrace what brings us together, what makes us love each other, not what makes us hate each other. I’m tired of the male bashing and I’m tired of catcalls from passing strangers. I’m just as tired of the women who are cruel and belittle other women because of some misguided idea that somehow by cutting other women down it makes them look better, it doesn’t, as I am of the men who belittle women simply because they’re women, as if that matters. It’s not a question of gender, it’s a question of respect for yourself and for others. If you don’t respect yourself, it’s very hard to respect others. I have female friends and male friends, and anyone that tells you that the genders can’t be friends with each other because sex gets in the way is full of shit. My best friend on this planet is a man. We’ve seen each other through divorces, second marriages, career changes, you name it and some things you probably couldn’t name. We are each other’s 3 AM phone call, when the rest of the world has gone black.

I spent the day with my girlfriend Genevieve shopping for the last few things we need on the remodel of our home. I texted with my daughter Trinity, because she was at a convention with friends this weekend. She’s turned twenty, which still seems odd, but on International Women’s Day is seemed like talking to my daughter was appropriate. Of course, we talk and visit when there’s not a special day celebrating women too. Jonathon visited his mother today, not because it was International Women’s Day but because he loves her. Spike, Genevieve’s husband and the other man in my life, is the one cooking dinner tonight because he’s awesome that way. He’s masculine in the best sense of the word, the traditional ideal of a good man, but he certainly doesn’t see cooking as women’s work or men’s work, it’s just part of running a household. Tonight he cooked, tomorrow it may be Genevieve’s turn or Jonathon’s turn. It’s rarely my turn since I am domestically challenged. They’d rather have dinner well prepared and timely than let me take a turn. At our house, everyday is International Women’s Day and International Men’s Day. We try to celebrate each other’s skills and strengths and work around our weaknesses every day. There’s no woman’s work, or man’s work, there’s just work and we try to find the best person for the job. If it’s heavy lifting beyond what I lift in the gym, it just makes sense to use the men’s upper body strength. If it’s sewing a hole in a beloved pair of jeans, you want any of the other three of my partners, but not me. If you want me to write a book or short story, I’m all over that, but sewing is not a strength for me. Jonathon is better with a rifle than I am. Spike is better at hand-to-hand. Genevieve is the best organized of us all. She’s also the tallest and I’m the shortest, so everybody gets to, “come be tall” for me, unless they want me climbing the cabinets to reach the highest shelves.

So, happy International Women’s Day, but here at our house we don’t need a day to remind us that women are great, or that men are great, or that everyone is special regardless of gender, race, or nationality. I wish the rest of the world seemed to know what we’ve learned at home: that we are stronger and happier together than we are apart.

Comments

[lliira (from livejournal.com)]

I knew when seeing the post title it would be bad. And yet I clicked. Why did I click. I only read the first line and my blood pressure skyrocketed.

Oh and I also hate myself enough to see how she ended it, so I read the last paragraph. For the sake of all the fucks. This is Bleeding on My Keyboard bad, and even more offensive. What is there to say? It's all been said, but she just keeps getting worse.

[bluesxgirlie.livejournal.com]

I don't usually do reaction gifs, but that was literally the face I made when I gave up reading this halfway through.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I’m just as tired of the women who are cruel and belittle other women because of some misguided idea that somehow by cutting other women down it makes them look better, it doesn’t,

I love that she wrote this without a shred of irony.

The rest of it makes me want to yell that this isn't even about you, LKH. Sit down.

[apep727.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my first thought on reading that particular sentence was, "have you read your books? Because that shit happens all the time. And it's usually your self-insert heroine doing it."

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I honestly cannot think of a single scene in the last...oh dozen books where this doesn't happen. Shutdown is the most blatant example, but the last Merry book is full of this shit. I'm up to a part where Merry's judging Andias' outfit because she's showing off too much cleavage in front of the babies. They're babies, guess what they feed from? And there's such a fuss made about the fae being so sexually liberated and don't care if people run around naked with the added bonus of this weird cultural thing where you're supposed to pay attention to people who've put the effort into being super pretty. It makes zero sense for Merry to be like OMG TOO MUCH BOOB IN FRONT OF MY CHILDREN! outside of this being an example of "MERRY IS THE BEST!"

So it's gonna be fun interesting an exercise in seeing how much this crops up in Dead Ice just to see how very exhausted she is by this sort of thing.

[lliira (from livejournal.com)]

She gets nastier toward other women with every book she writes. I expect Anita to throw away all pretenses and join Olaf on some rape and murder sprees any day now.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

She kinda already does that what with enslaving people and throwing tantrums at police when she doesn't get to murder people willy-nilly. At least Olaf is honest about what he likes.

[lliira (from livejournal.com)]

Yeah, she definitely already does that; the discarding of pretenses would be the change. That, and I think her murder and rape count would drop.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Yeah, she'd be too busy ruminating on how dark and edgy she is to be into rape and murder to actually do any of it.

I don't think I'd have such a problem with all this if a) LKH owned up to it or b) she/her team didn't get all defensive and HDU SAY THAT (or "puzzled") whenever shit like this gets brought up. Anita has issues with women: fact. There was a monologue in one of the books about how Anita is now more comfortable hanging out with men than women and she accepts that about herself. That she's got a "girlfriend" doesn't erase thay fact. I think she thinks if she says it enough times that eventually it'll be true.

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

Yes, oh God yes.

I'm pretty sure my eyes fell out of my head due to how hard I was rolling them on that statement.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

There's other weird stuff to do with Maeve too, like she's a terrible mother for having to work but she needs to work in order to support Merry et al who are freeloading at her massive Beverly Hills mansion, but she can't take her son with her while working (except that she probably could and leave him with a nanny in the trailer during the day) and Merry's SO GOOD AT TAKING CARE OF THE KID to the point where the kid calls Merry et al family rather than his own mother. Also only Merry can get him to stop fussing in 0.3 seconds flat because she's a baby whisperer.

What the everloving fuck, LKH. It'd be genuinely less irritating if all the pretty pretty mens did cartwheels while glitter cannons went off and they had MERRY IS THE BEST permanently emblazoned across the sky with stars.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

I don't believe in International Women's Day because I don't see gender blah blah and so I a woman called my daughter on this day because it seemed apt since we are both women.

PS I have more sexual partners than all of you and they minister to my needs because I can't cook.

[lliira (from livejournal.com)]

She's making less and less sense as time goes on. It's probably because of that ivory tower, but someone close to her should take her to a neurologist. But that might stop their paycheck for ministering to her fantasies.

[jessica collett (from livejournal.com)]

FLAMES. FLAMES ON MY FACE.

[dagonista.livejournal.com]

I really hate this day because I’m not sure why we need a day to remind us that woman are important.

Well, I can only speak for the UK, but maybe because (after five seconds of Googling):

On average two women a week are killed by a violent partner or ex-partner in the UK.

Black and minority ethnic and migrant women experience a disproportionate rate of domestic homicide.

Up to 3 million women and girls across the UK experience rape, domestic violence, stalking, or other violence each year.

In 2011 the Forced Marriage Unit advised over 1,450 people related to a possible forced marriage, 78% of whom were women and girls.

An estimated 66,000 women in England and Wales in 2001 had been subject to Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and at least 24,000 girls were at risk of FGM in 2007.

Almost 1 in 3 girls have experienced unwanted sexual touching at school.

36% of people believe that a woman should be held wholly or partly responsible for being sexually assaulted or raped if she was drunk and 26% believe this if she was in public wearing sexy or revealing clothes

1 in 5 people think it would be acceptable in certain circumstances for a man to hit or slap his female partner in response to her being dressed in sexy or revealing clothing in public

Only 77% of young men agree that having sex with someone who has said no is rape

The full time gender pay gap is 10%, and the average part-time pay gap is 34.5%

Approximately 70% of people in national minimum wage jobs are women

Up to 30,000 women are sacked each year simply for being pregnant and each year an estimated 440,000 women lose out on pay or promotion as a result of pregnancy

14% of White British women have been asked about their plans for marriage and/or children at a job interview compared to 20-25% of Black Caribbean, Bangladeshi and Pakistani women

But hey, the good news is that...

There are women athletes, police officers, soldiers, politicians, weight lifters, firefighters, every job that men can do we do

Well, there we are then. Sexism is officially over because women can be politicians and soldiers just like men. We definitely don't need to think about that any more because...

There’s no woman’s work, or man’s work

Excellent! Presumably that first chapter of Dead Ice where two police officers sit around and discuss what's "guy" behaviour and what's not is going to be edited now, yes?

I’m just as tired of the women who are cruel and belittle other women because of some misguided idea that somehow by cutting other women down it makes them look better

Excellent! So that entire short story you wrote where Anita mentally and verbally eviscerates another woman for not being as curvy, strong, well-dressed, sexually-liberated, or attractive as Anita...that...is that going away now?

[apep727.livejournal.com]

Yes, but acknowledging all those things would require LKH to occasionally step out of the perfect happy little bubble she's constructed for herself.

I don't know why she feels the need to talk about this kind of stuff, as it seems to always end up with her going "my life is great and wonderful, and aren't you all totes jealous that you aren't me, tee-hee-hee?"

[dagonista.livejournal.com]

Yeah, her entire life philosophy seems to be "does this inconvenience me? If not, I don't actually give a shit."

[fangedsekhmet.livejournal.com]

Best not tell her that there's an International Men's day, too.

[apep727.livejournal.com]

“Why do you write strong female characters?”

I believe Joss Whedon gave the best answer to that question: "Because you're still asking me that question."

Also, I'm fairly certain you don't write "strong female characters" - you write a stereotypical male power fantasy that also happens to have disproportionately large breasts. There's a difference.

re: LKH's happy perfect home life

Yes, it's great and wonderful that you've managed to create an environment that's supposedly free of enforced gender roles and whatnot. Good for you. However, you happen to live a bubble atop an ivory tower that has only a tenuous connection to the real world. As such, you're not really in a position to make any commentary on any aspect of society.

And yet you do. Repeatedly.

And I kind of understand why - plenty of other authors write stuff about this kind of thing as well. The difference is, the smart ones treat the topic with respect it deserves, rather than using it as an excuse to talk about how wonderful their life is, and how they're so much more liberated because they've moved beyond such petty concepts.

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

Yet she always TALKS about the gender roles, and not in a joking way. Girl things, and guy things, and guy moments with Edward and ...

Does anyone remember the thesis someone did on LKH's works and how awesome she was? Someone needs to do a thesis on the world view in the books vs how LKH presents her reality through Twitter, etc.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm fairly certain you don't write "strong female characters" - you write a stereotypical male power fantasy that also happens to have disproportionately large breasts. There's a difference.
Meh, I think LKH writes a sociopathic power fantasy that happens to be dressed up as a Strong Female Character. I don't think there's anything wrong with writing a female character that fits a stereotypical male power fantasy. I think there's a lot wrong with writing an abuser's fantasy and passing it off as "I'm being feminist and the rest of you are all jealous hater whiner babies!"

Nitpicking, sorry. :P Anita isn't a strong female character. She's incredibly weak. And she's not even weak in an interesting way, save for the sheer vileness of her behavior. (I guess Bile Fascination is 'interesting'...) It's the same rehashing of the same flaws in exactly the same way. All that changes is the magnitude, and that's only for the worse.

[apep727.livejournal.com]

No, that's a fair point. But I feel that there's a difference between what you're talking about ("female character that fits a stereotypical male power fantasy") and what Anita is (or is supposed to be). From everything I've seen, Anita could have been written as being a man and it would have had zero impact on her character.

It certainly doesn't help that she's always had a very active disdain for anything remotely feminine, including things like cleaning (how exactly does doing my own laundry and vacuuming make me less of a man?), and this has always been treated as making her somehow "better" than other women.

[lliira (from livejournal.com)]

Yeah, it's very much a stereotypical masculine fantasy. Though... I dunno, I don't think a male character would hate on women so much, because he wouldn't be trying to cover for his own self-hatred and constantly screeching that he wasn't one of THOSE THINGS.

I dunno, I think you're right, and yet I also think LKH's fantasies are so very strange and cruel that I'm not sure where to slot them.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

From everything I've seen, Anita could have been written as being a man and it would have had zero impact on her character.
Disagree. With LKH's weird ideas of gender roles, male!Anita wouldn't constantly need to cuddle in response to any sort of criticism whatsoever. Nor would there be quite so much noncon, because Anitaverse men always want sex (in practice, even if LKH gives lip service to it being otherwise) and they all have that ~darkness in their eyes~. Male!Anita also wouldn't go through the whole song-and-dance about how he's not beautiful, except he is totally the most beautiful man in the room.

Wait... I actually just came to a hilarious realization. Asher is male!Anita. Except that he's a toned-down version.

No wonder she hates him so much!

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

Yet, here we are reminding people that there are women scientists. I knew that as a child. I read about Madame Curie and Jane Goodall was a personal hero of mine. There are women in every branch of science and mathematics. Why is that still a surprise to anyone?

Because everyone is not you? Because everyone is not learning this stuff? Because we don't all live in Privileged White Woman Land? (Yes, I am a white woman, but the difference is that I acknowledge privileges in my life, which LKH is not so good at.)

There are women athletes, police officers, soldiers, politicians, weight lifters, firefighters, every job that men can do we do, except sperm donor, and there the men have us, but then we are the only egg donors. It takes both of us to make a new life, a new human being, of either sex.

Because just having the manly jobs does not equality make. How about all the male nurses or day care providers? Oh wait, let's not go there. Let's not acknowledge the sexism that women in those jobs face and have faced.

If all the above is true, then why do we need an International Woman’s Day? Why can’t everyday be a celebration of women and men and whatever sexual determination in between, that exists or may exist in the future? I don’t know, but I do know that I’m still getting asked, “Why do you write strong female characters?”


Leaving aside the fact that her female characters are NOT strong, the fact that people are still asking this question indicates that there is still a need.

I’m just as tired of the women who are cruel and belittle other women because of some misguided idea that somehow by cutting other women down it makes them look better, it doesn’t, as I am of the men who belittle women simply because they’re women, as if that matters.


Your books, do you even read them? Someone already mentioned it, but Shutdown is all about Anita a) being so very weak that she has to cuddle with the boys just to get through a lunch where she b) spends pages reflecting on how much better she is than Ellen and c) the guys telling her how very awesome she is. When I read the new one, this blog is going to get brought up.

If you don’t respect yourself, it’s very hard to respect others.

Pot, kettle....?

I have female friends and male friends, and anyone that tells you that the genders can’t be friends with each other because sex gets in the way is full of shit.

I agree here.

She’s also the tallest and I’m the shortest, so everybody gets to, “come be tall” for me, unless they want me climbing the cabinets to reach the highest shelves.


How tall are your freaking cabinets? I mean, I am an inch shorter than her (STILL NOT freakishly short, by the way) and somehow I manage my cabinets just fine. The "I'm so short" schtick gets old quick, especially since she's a pretty average height.

So, happy International Women’s Day, but here at our house we don’t need a day to remind us that women are great, or that men are great, or that everyone is special regardless of gender, race, or nationality. I wish the rest of the world seemed to know what we’ve learned at home: that we are stronger and happier together than we are apart.

Newsflash, LKH, International Women's Day is not all about you.

[snarky-imp.livejournal.com]

Totally missing all the important parts and zeroing in on this:

How tall are your freaking cabinets?

First time I visited my friend after they moved into their new place years ago, we came in through the kitchen door and she kinda hurried me through but I caught that something was off about the room. When we went back through for something I realized the damn place was set up for giants. I'm 5'9 and I would never be able to reach the top shelf without some really awesome shoes and even then...

It was weird to say the least. But they were renting and I'd imagine that Laurell wouldn't have her kitchen set up the same way just so she could be all tiny and precious.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

I once went to look at a flatshare with a woman who turned out to be a little person. I'm 5'8. The entire house was set up for her. It was very clear I wasn't the right choice within seconds.

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

How tall is LKH again? I can't remember. I'm 5' and I need a step stool to get the top shelf, but the rest I'm okay on tip toes or flat feet even. My mom is 5'4" and reaches everything just fine in her kitchen.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

I think she's 5'2, but in her world that makes her precociously and preciously minute compared with all other people. Some of the "tallest" humans I've known are under five feet tall. they just don't spend all their time going on and on about being short.

[magdalen77.livejournal.com]

It always makes me laugh when LaLa talks about how tiny she is. She's 5 inches taller than me.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

Maybe six! Anita's supposedly 5'3 according to my speedy Google search and Laurell is supposedly the same height (so she can work out hand to hand combat things etc).

[magdalen77.livejournal.com]

I was assuming she was 5'3". I remembered her blathering about her epic tinyness in the past.

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

5'4'', I believe.

[suzycat.livejournal.com]

So, she's average for her age. Sigh.

[mystickiwi.livejournal.com]

too long, couldn't stop vomiting long enough to read past the first paragraph.

[pidgin-english.livejournal.com]

This made me so irritated, I don't even know where to start. *headdesk*

[nialla]

I think I'm just going to gif out of this one.

[okami-no-yume.livejournal.com]

Of fucking course she's going to blog about International Women's Day. And once again, she is the goddamned queen of completely missing the point.

Yes, there are women in math and science. But both are still largely male professions. Women are still fighting tooth and nail for equality and being taken seriously. Women are still combatting sexism. Just because we've made strides in leveling the gender playing field, doesn't mean that sexism has been eliminated. She seems to think that it does.

Also, part of International Women's Day was spotlighting women who were instrumental in fields of math and science, fields that are, I'll state once again, largely male dominated and thus females are often erased or not given credit for the impact they had on both fields. Women who would otherwise remain largely unknown. Marie Curie and Jane Goodall are/were both highly visible women in their respective fields. Funny how she only thought to list those two examples. I notice she never mentioned Ada Lovelace or Maria Mitchell or Hypatia of Alexandria or Jocelyn Burne Barnell. This just even further proves the point of the under representation of women.

She's just like one of those Republicans who rambles about how we live in a post racial society and claims that racism no longer exists when there is mountains of evidence to the contrary.

I just...I can't even with this self absorbed, over privileged, out of touch twat.

[stitch (from livejournal.com)]

I really don't like how all of her posts (and a huge chunk of her books) come across as her saying "if you don't feel the same way as i do, you're less enlightened/a worse person than I am". I really don't like when she gets up on her high horse and is all preachy about how we shouldn't label ourselves and hold ourselves apart from one another because *she* doesn't do it.

She separates herself and her characters from other people all the time. She *wants* recognition based on the fact that she's polysexual, polyromantic, and a woman. She talks about how Anita is special because she's a woman who can fit into the boy's club of her world's law enforcement organizations (even though as the author she could've developed a world where Anita isn't out of the norm as a hardass shooter/killer but really didn't...).

But when it comes time for other, *average* women to get the chance to go "okay, hey, it's awesome to be a lady" (or for anyone else to be proud of the labels they use for themselves and the aspects of their identities/lifestyles that make them different), then she seems to have a problem with it?

And seriously, I don't really chill with anyone that has a problem with stuff like International Women's Day on the basis of "we don't need to be reminded that everyone is special regardless of race, gender, or nationality". Maybe LKH doesn't because her life is so perfect and she has representation and access to reminders that there are people like her doing great things, but for the majority of people... IWD and similar celebratory days/months/etc serve to shake the world up and make them go "I know my people are fabulous, why are you sleeping on their greatness?" to the world at large.

Seriously, if you're satisfied with *your* life and *your* representation, that doesn't mean that everyone else's feelings are invalid or that oppressed/marginalized people are "hating" on the people in positions of power.

Also: I wasn't expecting her to be you know... super socially aware but the steady hum of allegiance to rigid gender roles and erasure of transgender people (like with her comments about "[women] are the only egg donors") just rubs me the wrong way. I honestly feel that she's one of those authors that don't think about or write about people that they don't interact with on a regular basis. Maybe difference and diversity are mystifying elements to her and that's why her books are such poor examples of proper representation

[alondra-del-sol.livejournal.com]

Oh my glob. I clicked the read more and from the get go my brain started to froth angrily. Hey LKH it's not that it's a freaking surprise to 'everyone', it's that it comes to a freaking ~shock~ to the patriarchal society that we live in that is intent on erasing not only women's contributions to the world but trampling repeatedly on our rights not to mention how when that intersects with race or gender orientation that oppression can double or triple. I'll just be over here, pulling out my hair.

OMG LKH I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU ARE SO OBLIVIOUS. LIKE YEAH NOBODY IS ASKING ABOUT STRONG MALE CHARACTERS AND THIS 'STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER' BUT NOT 'STRONG' IN THE 'STRONGLY WRITTEN SENSE' IS PRECISELY ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, BUT EVEN THOUGH YOU POINT IT OUT YOU DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE OF IT AS PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY (the literary bunch of us) WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS. I don't even... where is a cluebat, so I can hit you with it a few thousand times.

"I’m tired of things that divide me from the rest of the human race." Uhm the patriarchal oppression that comes with having a vagina or expressing 'traditionally stereotypical feminine traits' you mean? Oh no... you mean that there is a day pointing out that you are a woman, though the point of the day is to point out, "Hey we're women and we want to be included to, and we're going to have this day to stand up and remind you that we're here too because we aren't being included," but no that's somehow divisive... okay (not okay).

" If you don’t respect yourself, it’s very hard to respect others." Ah, that old chestnut, because obviously if we don't respect ourselves that somehow excludes us from basic human dignity and rights by whatever arbitrary rules that determine what 'respectful' is (nah, actually).

Oh LKH, please tell us more about your paragon of a household where there are no gender divisions or inequalities, because obviously because you are privileged enough to live in your pansexual special snowflake castle where gender roles don't exist that must mean that other people don't need a "special day" (I am coming to really fucking abhor that phrase 'special day', because more and more it reeks of the derogatory application of special like when it comes to 'special ed' {in that people use 'special ed' as a slur} or 'special snowflake' and since the Queen of Snowflakes is using it un-ironically like we lesser earth beings just need to 'feel special' it makes me want to puke.).

"So, happy International Women’s Day, but here at our house we don’t need a day to remind us that women are great, or that men are great, or that everyone is special regardless of gender, race, or nationality.(So it's not just me she is sitting on her throne of privilege also shitting on things like black history month right here, yeah?) I wish the rest of the world seemed to know what we’ve learned at home: that we are stronger and happier together than we are apart." OMG. OMG. OMG. <<<THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT, HOW YOU ARE SO GODDAMNED UNAWARE. DO YOU SERIOUSLY WEAR REAL SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE, IVORY TOWER MADE BLINKERS FOR REAL. God, you and Anne Rice are obviously meant for each other at this point because you really like your darkity, dark goth pedestals that shield you from a whole lot of common freaking sense. I am going to be over here, banging my head into a keyboard. I can't even with this people. This fucking woman. I can't.