Advice for Fun and Profit

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

I know we have a ton of writers and writerly types in this group. Almost all of whom are talented like whoah. Plus just lots of intelligent, snarky peoples. So, I was wondering... 

If you could give LKH one piece of advice (literary or even otherwise I guess) what would it be? 

Or alterately... what's the best piece of writing advice you've ever gotten and how does Mad Ms. Hamilton violate it? 

Because seriously I sometimes wonder what her series would look like if someone was standing next to her with a 2x4 of Literary Wisdom. You know, someone to go "Peachy, darling, now just what the hell does X have to do with the main plot?" or "That's redundant. Delete and rephrase." 

There are some things that just seem so elementary going wrong- like time and characters popping into scenes they weren't in a moment before, but how to fix it?

Okay. I am stepping away from the keyboard now before the Nyquil takes further control.

Comments

[dragonfanguk.livejournal.com]

I had a piece of advice when submitting a manuscript to an agent:

Make sure that the first sentence was snappy, attention grabbing and preferably smack bang in the middle of action.

Through the latter books, the crazybadger lady has doled out first sentences that aren'y particularly snappy, or attention grabbing... and though there is the action... it's not really the right kind of action... just nasty gratuitous hottightwetness. Ick.

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

I would tell her to get a beta reader. An objective one wouldn't hurt at all.

As for violation? See above--get a beta reader. I don't know that she comprehends what that is.

Recover soon!

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I hope this tonsilitis goes away soon. Sick is just not my color.

Much love for beta readers. Maybe she thinks she has one with Jon... perhaps she's never seen his writing/grammar/lack thereof?

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. Being sick isn't any fun.

Maybe she can't tell he's got grammar issues because she's too busy writing the moaning/hot/wet/big/tight stuff?

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.

(Maybe her biology degree doesn't help with recognizing other people's grammar issues? *g*)

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

I would tell her to get a beta reader.

They're called "editors" in the professional sector, but I agree. ;)

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know that, which is why I specifically said beta reader.

It looks like her editor doesn't edit, hence my beta reader comment.

[nyxalinth.livejournal.com]

My best piece of advice is:

Your fans are your customers, and writing is your business. If you had, say, a chain of stores that made you a millionare, would you say "Well, now that I am rich and famous, I can act like a complete and total asshole to my customers and sell a crappy product and people will still by it!" and expect this to work? Of course not. So why do it to your fans?

Yes, you do still have people buying and wanking over your latest works. But think of how much more money and more fame you could have by doing a much better job of it.

I am not published, and my Elder Scrolls fanfics outdo this chick. Check my links on my journal, if you want to see for yourself. Or maybe I don't :P But at least I don't go around alienating my fans.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

I... now have something in my head about the Anita books and market repositioning. Like... she went from aiming for a noir, gritty, horror world to aiming for a dark gawth romance world. And not in a good, keep-both-audiences way. You could take a series and change it, I think. If she had kept the tighter plots and gore and horrific stuff instead of butchering it all for the sake of keeping her imaginary friends safe and cuddled... it's like she... blew apart her own marketing premise?

I know nothing of Elder Scrolls but now I am intrigued. I'll have to investigate this!

[nyxalinth.livejournal.com]

It's a computer game series. You can find some good info on Wikipedia.

[windiain.livejournal.com]

Invest in a decent dictionary. Also, stop ignoring all those squiggly red and green lines under words - they're not just there to make your document look pretty, they do actually indicate something has gone horribly wrong.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Does she even use a word processor? I remember a lot of jazz about technophobia and whimperwhimperwhinepoorme... Because if she uses Word you'd think she notice how her entire manuscript would be one long line of squiggly red and green. I've been on the assumption she was using Notepad as the only way to explain "flundreds" and "ardeur/uer"

[windiain.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes. It IS crap. But as you say, in LKH's case... ;) Really, LKH makes the Paperclip look like a genius. ;)

[fashi0n-mistake.livejournal.com]

Lets see, literary advice I have gotten over the years:

Having a snappy introduction sentence

Make sure you have a plot

Don't tell, show

Use spell check and make sure you use proper grammar

Don't write just for feedback, write because you enjoy it


Heh. Do I really need to say how LKH has violated the advice my English and Writing teachers gave me? It's a very long list after all.

My advice to her would be make sure your book has a plot that does not include sex. Also that everything in the book should be there because it either furthers the plot in some way or gives background.

[kidkai.livejournal.com]

Every sentence must mean something and lead somewhere. Eliminate anything that isn't truly important to revealing plot, setting or the characters. (And "It was a [insert adjective day in [insert month]" doesn't cut it. Particularly not when you start almost every book in this manner. That is not revealing anything but your cookie cutter formula for starting a book.)

Show, don't tell. On a related note, don't be overly descriptive. (Really, do we care what color your Nike swoosh is? Do we? Is it in any way important?)

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

It's such a hard line to tread... the line between under-descriptive and over-descriptive. And some styles get away with more description than others.

Is there are good rule of thumb about the description thing?

If you cut every sentence that didn't lead somewhere in one of the last Anita books... would there even BE a book?

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

Some folks might actually live for the wangst of the swoosh, you know.

In fact, they may plan their entire wardrobe around it.

[allova.livejournal.com]

I'd give Ms Hamilton the same advice I give newbie roleplayers, or old hand roleplayers who forget:

At the end of the day, none of it is real. Remember the difference between you and the character, for that difference is golden.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Good, sound, sane advice.

It weirds me out to no end when people get that line blurred. Like... buying their character gifts? Promising them no one will die? And then making sure no one dies. By making them a harem-boy...

[allova.livejournal.com]

I am certain that at least one of the characters would prefer death to being a living sex-toy. Seriously!

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Probably Richard who has been the only one to protest and just look at his punishment... The rest are too afraid to say anything lest they share his terrible fate. It was probably more humane to lock them in coffins and terrorize them.

[randomsome1.livejournal.com]

Every bit of crit merits looking at. Some of it'll be shit, yeah, because some people are stupid--but try to see where the crit-giver is coming from.

Along those lines: if the reader doesn't like your work, that doesn't mean they're jealous. If they have solid, spelled-out reasons for not liking your work, and there's more than a few of them, then you may really need to sit down and rethink what you're doing.

[salveo-opes.livejournal.com]

Word!

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

The best piece of advice I've ever seen is: Can you tell your story in two sentences? If not, delete the unnecessary and hone hone hone.

Though she'd probably think that all the sex could be filed under one word. And wow I feel mean because I'm not published. But then again I've spent most of my life being told I have talent and I know my short stories are kick ass and awardwinning, because they have been.

Novel length stuff is what I'm working on now.

(I guess I've honed myself into a corner and can maybe stretch to a novella)

They say it better than I do, honestly.

[klmorgan.livejournal.com]

A good novel tells us the truth about its hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author. - G. K. Chesterton

translation: HIE THEE TO THERAPY!


The writer who loses his self-doubt, who gives way as he grows old to a sudden euphoria, to prolixity, should stop writing immediately: the time has come for him to lay aside his pen. - Colette

trans: You're prizing quantity over quality...


Writing is rewriting. A writer must learn to deepen characters, trim writing, intensify scenes. To fall in love with the first draft to the point where one cannot change it is to greatly enhance the prospects of never publishing. - Richard North Patterson

trans: ... because you're afraid to kill your darlings.


You write with ease to show your breeding
But easy writing is cursed hard reading.
- Ben Franklin

Yup.


When in doubt have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand. - Raymond Chandler

She used to do this. I miss this. :(


Never confuse movement with action. - Ernest Hemingway

LKH? Sex is not character development. If need be, I will write an essay on character devlopment to show you.


I would then print out many, many, many good smut fics and say: "Look at these. This is how it's done. It IS possible to explore character through sexual activity... but these stories have everything you're missing. I'm not saying you have too much sex; I'm saying you have the wrong kind of sex. Boring sex. I'm not asking you to be Anias Nin, honey, but when I spend this much of my time reading porn and yet your books bore the hell out of me? You're missing something."

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine says often that fanfiction has spoiled me. Because fanfic writers write a lot of sex and write it often; meaning they've had far more practice than professional writers. Moreover they're involved in a community that dissects what works and what doesn't and is honest about personal kinks, personal squicks and how those can be translated via characters.

More and more I find myself skipping over love scenes / sex scenes in published books because there's just no heat. Or when there is heat and I don't skip over, I end up frustrated because that's the time the author chose to fade to black.

Ahh fade to black. Would that LKH would embrace it. It'd leave a good 100 pages left for plot.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Oh dude, I've seen more eloquent SPAM emails.

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[world-of-eos.livejournal.com]

Sex is not character development.

Fuckin' A. Anita forcibly reevaluating her sexual inhibitions ONLY because of some cheesy, plot-killing, where-the-hell-did-it-come-from? deus ex machina is not character development. That's like if I were to help someone with their acrophobia by leading them to the Grand Canyon and shoving them over the edge.

And I sure do miss the man with the gun in his hand moments, too. :( That isn't character development, either, but at least it would be interesting.

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[klmorgan.livejournal.com]

That's like if I were to help someone with their acrophobia by leading them to the Grand Canyon and shoving them over the edge.

Damn good analogy.

If Anita had fought the arderererer, that would have been character development. If it had led her to screaming fights with all her lovers and a need to re-vamp (heh heh) the way she lived, that would have been character development. Anita going, "hey, my issues with intimacy and sex were immature! and boring! i am over them now!"... that?

That's just fucking sad.


That isn't character development, either, but at least it would be interesting.

Dude, it was plot! It was GREAT PLOT! It made for good books!

(the exclamation points are for excitement, not admonition)

Remember this?

LKH: I will describe how Anita goes to sleep in her bed.

READERS: Hmmm, this is getting kind of boring.

LKH: ...

READERS: *yawn*

LKH: And then a horde of zombies (or maybe two) came through the door, ravenous for the sweet taste of human flesh!!!

READERS: !!!!!!

LKH: But Anita grabbed her gun and her stuffed penguin and she beat! Those! Motherfuckers! Down!

READERS: OMGWTF BEST BOOK EVAH.

LKH: *smug* I rock.



And she totally did. *tear for old LKH*

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[world-of-eos.livejournal.com]

If Anita had fought the arderererer, that would have been character development.

EXACTLY! I was thinking about that after I posted this comment, and it actually got me kinda mad! Because you know what would have made a really awesome book? What would have been completely in-character for a bull-headed character like Anita? Fighting the ardor!*

There's so much wasted potential there. How would the police's need for her expertise interfere with her own need to cure herself? What kind of moral ramifications would there be to giving in to it and allowing all of these people she cares for (her man-harem) to become dependent on it/her? What if she got them all hooked on this damn ardor stuff and she died? (Because in a Real Universe she wouldn't be able to depend on the Diety's retarded promise not to kill anyone she loved.)

There could still be sex scenes, because you know - maybe she can't triumph all the time. And maybe losing to the ardor sometimes would make her really re-evaluate her sexual hang-ups. Maybe it would make her realize that sometimes, sex is okay because it's fun! Not because she has to do it to OMGsaveeverybody, which is just swapping one sexual dysfunction for another (and which would have been interesting if LKH had actually used the Savior Complex Fucking for what it really was, instead of a paper excuse for badly written orgies).

And just . . . rrr! I got myself all worked up on the drive to work because I kept thinking about how not only did she start turning out these crap books, but she was turning out crap books when something awesome was being held out on a silver platter.

*(I don't care how she spells it, dammit, I'm going to spell it correctly.)

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

HIE THEE TO THERAPY!
=Best bit of advice she could ever get.

Although, isn't her going to therapy what kicked off the series to begin with? Wasn't Anita begun at her therapist's encouragement? In which case, I just wonder at what point in the series she quit seeing the therapist. Obviously she needs to go back.

Re: They say it better than I do, honestly.

[klmorgan.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, really? I never heard that before! 0_0

But yeah, whatever, she totally needs to go back. If she did have a therapist, I'm sure he/she already has a casebook all written up just on the informations available in interviews and forewards.

[catskin.livejournal.com]

Best advice I ever got: cut the crap and get to the point. That was one of the first things my literary agent told me, so instead of having a long, pretty opening paragraph about how nice the woods are, I get straight in there with a line about werewolves. Score!

LKH could benefit from similar advice.

[ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com]

"Sex scenes should have a purpose in the context of the plot; they shouldn't replace the plot"?

Feel better!

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Heh. But then... we'd be cheated out of all that hot smutty wetness. We'd be left with maybe three sex scenes in the whole series. And we'd have like... ten pages left of CS and DM.

Thanks! As much fun as Nyquil is, it really is not the best altered state for trying to read Danse Macabre.

[darksongtrilogy.livejournal.com]

Know when to call it quits. There is no such thing as a series that can maintain quality indefinitely. If you don't have an end point in mind, you don't have a cohesive plot. The series will eventually reflect that problem.

[random-fat-bird.livejournal.com]

The best piece of advice I could give LKH?


Give it up. Actually, give it up to somebody else. There are many people out there who could take your characters and universe and create startlingly kick-arse books out of them. Let go, walk your dogs and keep away from the computer. The latter not only means your dogs stay fit, it also prevents us from having to read all about it on your blog.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

"If the story isn't working, take the thing you love most about it, the reason why you're making it, the very heart of the piece and cut it. And that will make the story work." - Joss Whedon.

That goes hand in hand with advice I got on essay writing - which is don't crap on. There's no need to write War and Peace when a haiku will do.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

Ah, Joss, how I love thee... I want to be that brave as a writer- able to cut out my fans' hearts and have them still understand why and love it anyway. It's okay to let major characters die if there's a reason and it's going to improve the story. Plus it thins out the cast...

There's no need to write War and Peace when a haiku will do.
AMEN to that. Let's send that to her on a Post-it. A big, permanent post-it.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Oh lord, yes. I admire the man for turning me into an utter emotional wreck, but for all the right reasons. I happen to agree with him that happy people are boring. Characters get infinitely more interesting when A) people die, B) their sparkly love falls to shit, C) they have to put their sparkly love on hold to go deal with the impending apocalypse, D) all of the above. Personally, I'm a fan of taking a character and slowly turning them into the thing they fear/hate the most and seeing where that leads.

"Why write War and Peace when a haiku will do?" is one of my mantras...I think I coined it during my ID snark. o.0

[dinsedaledarby.livejournal.com]

the best advice I have is to write something original. write something that no one else has done before. most people like experiencing new ideas. Experimenting is teh shit

[dinsedaledarby.livejournal.com]

I see your point but i didn't mean it to be the be all end all of advice. It's just basic stuff.
Original is hard to do and also have nothing to do with flying pigs which I am aware of.
;)

[dinsedaledarby.livejournal.com]

I think she shouldn't use "so" at all. even if she's not describing sex.

[vanity-lost.livejournal.com]

so you're so very, very right on so, so touchy a subject...

[britpoptarts.livejournal.com]

I'll repeat much of what has been said, I'm sure, but these things come to mind:

* Use writers' tools such as dictionaries, thesauruses, spellcheck / grammar programs, outlines and plots.

* Show, don't tell. If you MUST write sex scenes that are eight chapters long, perhaps you can omit the numerous wanky digressions into either Recap Land, the same old tired mental cartwheels characters seem to use when you try to make them do things you originally designed them to be opposed to doing, or lengthy superfluous exposition.

* Remember basic character qualities you developed and be consistent with them. In real life, people do not radically change their values or beliefs or core reactions or behavior patterns overnight. If they do, it is rare.

* Mister Apostrophe is your friend, stop abusing him. Mister Comma would also like to be treated in a professional manner.

* No more Mary Sue characters.

* Don't be afraid of introducing strife into your books. Death of a character, genuine menace, a realistic chance that a character will experience loss or pain or permanent injury...all of these things give characters something to feel strongly about.

* Attempt to do research. Occult traditions, realistic first names for centuries-old characters, historical events relevant to centuries-old characters, mythology, etcetera. Read known experts on the subjects you plan to write about.

* Did I mention a plot? Having an actual story arc would be swell.

* Remembering details about characters...I'm fairly sure this bears repeating.

* Don't try to pander to your crazier fans.

* Inserting your own personal flaws into a character's profile and then repeatedly explaining why these flaws are actually signs of perfection and excellence (e.g., if you are fashion-challenged, do not attempt to pretend you can write about haute couture and not sound like an 80s reject; if you are short and have a temper, do not pass these qualities off as the utmost in desirability)

* Do not get confused about whether your characters are real or imaginary / fictional.

* Do not relegate your most interesting secondary characters to the ash heap.

* Do not continue to add secondary and tertiary characters to your world if you can't even satisfactorily flesh out the personalities, dreams, goals, quirks, foibles and motivations of the ones you already have.

* Do not impose your provincial ideas about what constitutes sophistication on your audience (e.g. speaking French (badly), loving descriptions of cliche gourmet foods, and many more incidents)

* Do not fail to have your story arc, characters, plot and alternate universe more fleshed-out and detailed by the end of your umpteenth book just because you'd like to write about sex instead. Buy a vibrator, for god's sake. Get it out of your system. Find a plot.

* Omit the inessential.

* Thin the herd.

* Get an editor.

If I repeat myself, take that as a hint that something is really wrong. Or maybe my repeating myself ad nauseum will give LKH a sense of how frustrating her books are to read. Mayeb I should repeat myself eight more times, or lift entire sections of text from previous books (er, I mean POSTINGS, yeah), or have the same stupid dilemmas and angst and ego-stroking mentioned another few dozen times.

* More powerful does not equal better. Actually, flaws and mistakes make a character more interesting than "OMFG, Character has yet another invincible superpower! She's just the bestest, rah rah yay!!" deus ex machina writing.

* Don't have main characters do a 180o shift in attitude and/or behavior and then ignore wails of despair from readers that you have royally fucked up your own series by so doing.