Passage of Anita time?

[easol.livejournal.com]

This has actually been discussed before, talking about how Hamilton is slowing time within her series, so as to keep Anita in her late twenties... apparently forever. Over the course of the whole series, we've had what, three years pass? Four, five, max?

(I can't remember how old she was at the start of the series, so maybe someone can help me out here. I think she's been twenty-seven for a number of books now).

But I recently realized that apparently time is only warping for Whorenita and her carousel of penii. They have only aged a few years (or not, if vampiric), but LKH makes mentions of "the eighties" in the far past tense (in terms of derogatory dress criticism, hilariously enough). And her last book has Nathaniel dragging Whorenita to go watch Peter Jackson's "King Kong," which came out two years ago. (On a side note, I'm relieved that she didn't pay attention to the movie -- since it's a man-woman-ape love triangle, she'd be demanding sexxors)

Meaning that Whorenita, Nathaniel and the rest have aged a mere three-ish years since the early nineties, right up to 2005. That's more than a decade that has been compressed into just a couple of years! Is LKH really so deluded that she thinks she can bend time within her novels and not have anyone notice?

Comments

[ladyniko.livejournal.com]

She's made comments in one of her books about "Wild Horse Creek Road" and being totally familiar w/ that area, I know when it started to become the over populated yuppyville it is today - the transformation started in the late 90's... but, the way she described it in the book was to put it in current times.

(And, I mourn for when it was a country back road filled with farms & such instead of McMansions.... :( Because, it was a faster way into Chesterfield from out where I live.)

[denouement16.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean about the superfast changes in St. Louis, Jefferson and St. Charles counties. You wouldn't recognize a description of many roads from just 5-10 years ago.

Sometimes though, she's wrong and it grates on me sooooooo hard. In one of the books she describes the Zumbehl Exit on I-70 and is totally wrong, even for the time period she was writing in. Would it be that hard to drive over and check it out?

My favorite LKH geography pet peeve though is Merry Gentry living in Cahokia, IL, at Cahokia Mounds. Cahokia Mounds are in a different county than Cahokia, IL. They're not the same thing! That's simple "look at a map" research.

[denouement16.livejournal.com]

I think my grammar might be degrading. There are missing commas in that post!

[ladyniko.livejournal.com]

But, we're talking LKH - that would make too much sense! :-p

And, I'm glad she's so far left where I live now - Franklin Co./Washington, alone! *sigh of relief*

[denouement16.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I moved to Illinois. We don't even live in the same state anymore!

[mystickiwi.livejournal.com]

I bet if someone asked her about this, she would just say "Oh, well it's an alternate world, with vampires and werewolves, so I can manage the time there however I want!" only she'd be more defensive.

[lauramcvey.livejournal.com]

To which I reply: You can't twist every rule out there by saying "it's fantasy". Plot inconssitencies can't be explained away by the fantastic nature of the setting. Neither can character wankiness, or misinformed "research". Skillful authors can bend the rules of the universe, but it has to be because it was always that way, not because the author screwed up And it's pretty easy to tell the difference.

[mystickiwi.livejournal.com]

And she would sic Darla on you. Although I'm not sure how scary that would actually be. If only you could say that to her and have the little lightbulb go off inside her head that caused her to do research and have someone check for consistency errors. You would be our hero.

[lauramcvey.livejournal.com]

I'd love to be able to push her back to the days where she was a good writer (though I was never a big fan of hers) but I don't know if it's possible at this point Just look at her response to criticism. Granted I'd be a lot gentler than what she probably ran across on Amazon, but I still doubt she'd listen. Either that or she'd say that Anita is aging slowly, which is an okay poit, but what about characters like Richard? Are they in a time warp as well? And if so, why?

[easol.livejournal.com]

"It's my fantasy world so I can do whatever I like!"

Well put, lauramcvey. You can basically get away with running amuck in plot elements that are imaginary and expressed as such, like lycanthropy. But this is just another gaping hole that a good editor could have put right.

[lauramcvey.livejournal.com]

The thing is, a plot hole like this could be explained by saying that the world is completely AU.

For example, there's this movie called Perfect Creature. It is very clearly defined to be AU, with toughes suh as airships and alternate place names. The writer makes it VERY CLEAR that this is not our world, though it is based on real-world New Zealand (renamed Nuos Zelandia, or something like that). And he still managed things like character interactions and plot- managed them quite well, actually (seriously, rent that movie. It is made of awesome). LKH on the other hand, has never made any sort of distinction between the real world and Anitaverse besides the magic elements. In fact, she's made references to real-world pop culture (Madonna, King Kong) that places the setting squarely in our world. And by doing that, she's consigned it to real-world time, but she seems to be forgetting/ignoring that when it suits her. And that only serves to yank the reader out of the book, and straight into the realms of "Say what?"

[easol.livejournal.com]

ESPECIALLY when you assign it to real-life people like Madonna or Peter Jackson.

Oooh, and Dracula. I remember hazily that Dracula -- in a fictional sense, not in Dracula-was-a-real-vampire sense -- was also mentioned, and we have the "Renfields." Meaning of course that Stoker wrote the book and it became a pop-culture-defining hit, just as in the real-world. That little tidbit makes it even more distracting for me!

Basically, yo can do that if you want, but it has to be one or the other -- being selectively AU is like being a little pregnant.

Oh, and me is putting Perfect Creature on mine wish list. Looks great! Sort of like "Last Exile" but with vampires.

[cicipsychobunny.livejournal.com]

See, some authors actually manage to pull that off with style, like Sara Douglass in the Crucible trilogy - she included an author's note at the beginning saying "This is a revisioning of history, and most historical details are correct, but due to plot considerations I had to move the Battle of Agincourt forward two years."

Which probably annoyed some history buffs, but at least she was upfront about it, and more importantly, knew what the hell she was talking about.

[hellozombies.livejournal.com]

Well, thirty is OMG REALLY, REALLY OLD, and LKH is only in her early twenties or so, so of course Anita can't get to her thirtieth birthday. /sarcasm.

I really think that, a woman in her mid-forties, would be smart enough to realize that thirty isn't old (in my opinion, neither is forty or fifty--my mother is 53 and she doesn't look a day over 42).

LKH just wants her books to stay "hip." A thirty year old cum bucketzombie-raising vampire-slayer isn't hip. Apparently.

[easol.livejournal.com]

The saddest thing is that it would be so EASY to arrange slowed aging, because of all these mystical supernatural vampire connections.

Hell, if you don't mention her age at all, people won't worry, "Wait, is this character not YOUNG and therefore COOL enough for me? Is she, omigosh, OVER THIRTY?! Teh horror!"

[ladyravana.livejournal.com]

The saddest thing is that it would be so EASY to arrange slowed aging, because of all these mystical supernatural vampire connections.

You know, that's one thing that really bugs me. I thought that Anita had stopped aging, and that even if she were pushing thirty or thirty five, she wouldn't look a day over twenty-four. (Or however hold she was when JC marked her in The Killing Dance.) Since JC's laid the first three marks on her. I know she'd have to take the fourth mark to acheive true immortality. I remember waaaaaay back when I read Guilty Pleasures, and JC gave her (I think) it was the first mark, and he told her that she "aged almost as slowly as they [the vampires] did."

I also (vaguely) remember in Obsidian Butterfly when she was in the hospital, she told the doctor she was twenty-six, and he told her she looked younger. So...from what I surmised, I had guessed that she aged, but it was at a much much slower rate than a normal human, and she was therefore semi-immortal courtesy of the marks. I mean, she had all those other super-speshul powers, why not that one?

I don't think LKH has mentioned anything about Anita aging, really...but the passage of time slowing to a snail's pace in the books is an interesting indicator that Laurell doesn't want her precious AnitaSue to hit the big 3-0, as has been stated by other posters. But as easol has mentioned...if Laurell can make it where her characters no longer age, WHY DOESN'T SHE??? It's painfully obvious, and it would MAKE SENSE, and would seem like a logical step for the author to take with her characters.

...And...and...my brain hurts trying to make sense of this. This is LKH we're talking about here, so logic and consistency plays no part in the Anitaverse.

*HEADDESKS* I hope I managed to sound at least semi-articulate.

[easol.livejournal.com]

I really don't know -- it's like the number matters to her more the actual physical age. If Whorenita's aging stops, and we see her ten years later at thirty-seven, then who cares? It matters as much as JC's chronological age, which she's mentioned inconsistently many, many times!

It's especially sad because if ladyravana recalls it all correctly, then LKH had the basis for a nigh-immortal heroine who would never grow old... and now she's warping time because of a NUMBER.

(It's not like it's unusual, either. Look at Harry Dresden -- he's fortyish at least, but no big deal because the wizards age verrrry slowly)

[kyalesyin.livejournal.com]

Wait- isn't the lead chick in Kelly Armstrong's werewolf books in her 30s, or am I having a brainfart? I don't see anyone saying she's too old to be cool.

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Well, I've always assumed that the series took place in the '80s. It would justify Anita not aging, the bad clothing and everything else. Is it possible that she time warped "King Kong" back into say 1987?

[easol.livejournal.com]

Given that that was when PJ finished making his first no-budget movie ever, that's the only explanation. :)

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

See I KNEW the series was stuck in the '80s. It's historical paranormal pornography.

[ladyniko.livejournal.com]

*lol*

If only.... because of certain geographical references she makes, it's led me to believe that the series at least partially takes place in the 90's, early part of this decade.... (She mentions "Wildwood," I believe, and that's only been a city for about 10 yrs now and talked about a murder out on "Wild Horse Creek Road" - that part of West County didn't start to be a yuppy trashed area until the late 90's...)

*sob* It's depressing that I unfortunately have to acknowledge she lives in the same metro area as me. :-p

[easol.livejournal.com]

So it's sort of a chronological hodgepodge, based on everything from the geography to the clothes. It's... it's almost like it's whatever time period the author chooses, continuity be damned! That can't be it, can it?

I honestly don't know why she mentioned "King Kong" -- there are dozens of movies from the 90s she could have put in instead. Maybe it was Jonboi's fault.

[ladyniko.livejournal.com]

Maybe it was Jonboi's fault.

Could be.....

I am still just depressed that the "Charles" she keeps referring to is somebody I thought had somewhat better taste than to get involved w/ her. Chuckie boy, did your Iraq tours totally wipe what's left of your mind? *sigh*

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Just because LKH doesn't realize her books are set in the '80s doesn't mean that I can't appreciate them as '80s fan fiction.

Charles sounds as wacked out as the rest of the gang from the outside. Is he actually an okay person?

[wakarimashta.livejournal.com]

well, one of the crime scenes is MY HOUSE.
she ACTUALLY killed me, in my own house.

deuced if I can recall which one......but it's an anita book where there was actually a mystery. ( THAT ought to narrow it down, hm? )
AnitaSue describes my home to a tee........ up to and including my purple bedroom, the flowered headboard I had at the time, and my eviscerated corpse in the bed. BUT......... she never ever puts real people into her books.....

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

Ok, that's creepy. Now I have to reread the first few books to see if I catch your cool room.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I always picture the series taking place in the eighties. Like the Army of Love video, all the foppish (and hilarious) lace and spandex fashion, effeminate (or androgynous) men mincing about in heels a la prince, and the rest of horrific 'sexy' fashion LKH barfs onto a page just screams the 80's. Throwing in modern references is just LKH's stupidity.

My theory is that she is so intent on getting her rape/bestiality fantasies on the page that she doesn't notice all the inconsistencies and lack of plot. It's all about typing with one hand for her and then sharing it with the world.

[andrivka.livejournal.com]

lol, what's her other hand doing?

[amyheartssiroc.livejournal.com]

It's just like comic book time!

[pandorasblog]

Exactly. I remember a 90s issue of one of the X-books where they're celebrating the birthday of one of the original five X-Men - since they became X-Men in their teens, maybe twelve to fifteen years had passed in the characters' lives versus about thirty in reality. Of course, we hadn't actually seen thirty years' worth of events depicted, but then that's just the way things work out when you have 20-something pages, once a month, in which to advance a story.

In LKH's case I doubt it has to do with her not wanting Anita to age; I think it's more that she ran into the same problem as above, albeit on a more gradual timeline - she wrote a book every year, and as far as I remember from the early books, a few months was the most time that ever passed between the events of one book and those of the next. It figures that after twelve books she'd only have got through about three years of Anita's life.

So I don't have a problem with Anita still not being thirty; what I do have a problem with is the fact that LKH hasn't made more effort to acknowledge or deal with the issue. She could try being deliberately vague (had she not made any culture-specific references back in the 80s, we could imagine the books taking place now; alternatively, she could avoid making references like the King Kong one to let us picture the story as still going on in the 80s). Or she could be open about it and say, "Sorry kids, I never anticipated this problem, so I'll try to fudge the continuity where necessary if you guys have some patience with the odd thing that doesn't match up."

Of course, that would be so out of character as to be impossible.

[juuchan.livejournal.com]

I vaguely remember reading an article where they asked her about about how she did this with the MG series as well, insofar that one book covered a couple hours of MG-time, and she seemed proud of this fact.
-insert facepalm here-
Manipulation of passage of time in narrative would only be effective if you actually knew how to construct an engrossing narrative, you know? It's not that she thinks people don't notice, it's that she thinks she ought to be appreciated for it.

[rin-x-x.livejournal.com]

Sadly, she covered the reason as to why time moves differently in the sithen.

The sad part is that the only reason its doing it now is BECAUSE of Merry. >:(

[rin-x-x.livejournal.com]

Oops. I forgot to mention that she covered it within the first book I believe.

[arclights.livejournal.com]

I wonder if she's trying to write it for a movie treatment -- MG, at the least, and possibly AB?

No, seriously: you know that she thinks she deserves it, what with all the credit/tv series deals that the other urban fantasy series out there are getting, so maybe she's trying to "help" the process along by writing something that would potentially be considered easy to script? It's not like authors don't do it -- I mean, the Da Vinci Code is evidence enough.

Books, comics ... the next logical step is, I suppose, a movie. Release the first one or three in theaters, do the next several straight to video, and then quietly sell the rights to the last several to Hustler or something for some gratuitous porn with (nominal) plot.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I say JC completed the fourth mark somehow without Anita knowing and is gloating about how no one's noticed for over the past ten years... to Asher who is laying in bed next to him.

...

But that's just my theory.

[roguetailkinker.livejournal.com]

She can't even keep time straight inside one book. You want a headache? Read The Harlequin and try to figure out how much time had passed between that and Danse Macabre.

Yes, I actually sat down and did that, because I realized that Monica's baby, which I thought would have been just born around DM, was actually a year and some change old- which royally screwed up my fanon chronology. Factor in TH- and whammo, instant headache.

FWIW, when one manages to make sense of the warped time and measures by the age of characters and date of the first book's publication, Danse Macabre takes place in November of '97.