the characters made me!

[contrariwise.livejournal.com]

So I was browsing at the library and picked up Janet Evanovich's^* How I Write. Right there, on page 14, an interesting passage jumped out at me:

Q: Some people say they start writing and the character tells them what's next. In other words, the characters take over for the author. Do your characters ever surprise you like that?

Janet: NO! What does surprise me is that people say this happens. This is fiction! Your character doesn't do anything you don't want him to!

You do have to be very careful never to force a character to do something simply because you think he needs to do it for the sake of the plot or because you think it's funny or because you think it's hot or it's cute or whatever. Characters have to do what they are supposed to do according to your creation of them and your plot line. The bottom line is: Writers control the story and the characters. And don't let anyone tell you different--particularly your main character.

For some reason, I thought immediately of a certain author...


^*She writes the Stephanie Plum series, featuring a spunky (but not very good at her job) bounty hunter, her wacky family, and her two on-again/off-again hot dudes. It's a fluff series, but it knows it. *g*

Comments

[easol.livejournal.com]

She clearly knows the biz of writing. We should send a copy to LKH, along with the NIN mix disc and Stargate episode. ;)

Occasionally a character won't fit into the round hole, but usually that's more a plot problem than a character problem.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Oh crap, that is a HUGE Freudian slip. ;) Especially with THIS series.

[contrariwise.livejournal.com]

LOL! I don't think there's a problem with anything not fitting in Anita's hole...

*is twelve*

[easol.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I imagine any character -- including megasized cave trolls -- could fit into THAT round hole.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Can someone mail this to LKH? Lord knows she needs to read it.

[deadsong.livejournal.com]

I was just having a discussion with a friend about this, as she asked me if my characters talk to me. I told her no, but there is a sense of the story taking over if you put enough time into planning the world, building your characters and your plot, and creating a good character dynamic. The author still maintains full control, but it almost feels like the story is writing itself as all the pieces you spent so much time preparing fall into place and even inspire new ideas to add further depth to what you'd already planned.

But no, no voices in the head, save for when I imagine the perspective character speaking out loud when I'm writing so I can see if it "sounds" right. Anything more than that, well...

I wonder if LKH knows there are medications for that.

[cicipsychobunny.livejournal.com]

Love Janet Evanovich!

And I'm with deadsong - when I'm writing, if I've thought through my characters enough, whatever happens just seems to be logical and natural - and sorry, LKH, but that includes the bad things.

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see that Janet Evanovich has her head on straight when it comes to who's in charge of the story. It's a very refreshing change from the way LKH takes dictation from her imaginary friends. If only LKH could learn this.

Still, I stopped reading the Stephanie Plum series after the first few books. While it was (very) amusing at first, the fact that Stephanie never gets any better at her job got to be grating eventually. You can only make the same amateurish mistake so many times before it goes from charmingly naive to stupid.

[longtail.livejournal.com]

Same here.

[dinsedaledarby.livejournal.com]

When I went to the Romantic Times Booklover's Convention last year(2006), a lot of the authors on the panels talked about the character's "talking" to them and telling them what to do. Some of them even said they had "arguements" with the characters about events in the book and the voices would tell them they wanted things to go a certain way other than what the author originally planned.
To me this sounds like a 15 year old pretending they hear voices in their head telling them to do evil things. It seems childish and melodramatic.
I am relieved to hear Janet Evanovich say she doesn't hear such voices. I read the Stephanie Plum series and it is very good and a lot of fun.

[ex-naomi-ja.livejournal.com]

It just smacks of Suffering Artiste to me - people taking themselves and their work way too seriously. LKH is Queen of the Suffering Artistes - nobody knows her pain, the hurt she experiences through her writing and her characters. Nobody else has ever suffered the way she has, godammit and why don't you like all the sex, you prude?

And so forth.

[amyheartssiroc.livejournal.com]

Eh, I think there's a happy medium in there. If you don't let your characters develop in ways you didn't expect, you can force them into a plot or action that falls flat. You need to give your characters room to surprise you and give your plot room to change, but still have the ultimate say in what goes on.

[gothgoddessrhia.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Seriously. I know my characters aren't separate entities from me, but there are definitely times when I can almost imagine them standing up and saying "you know that I'm not that stupid, right? So why are you making me stupid in that scene? Also, I would never use that guy as a shoulder to cry on! WTF" or something similar. It's all about what works for a given author, as long as they don't get too nuts with it.

[estllechauvelin.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I actually think Janet Evanovich is being overly hostile to what's a perfectly good term. I really think most authors who say that kind of thing actually mean that, caught up in the story, they wrote something that they didn't originally intend because it suddenly struck them that it would be a good idea, or realized that something they originally meant to do wouldn't be in character and needs to be changed. When everybody knows that (and I think most people do understand that, when the author isn't being generally insane), "they did something that surprised me" is as valid a thing to say as any other metaphor. If somebody pulls a stupid joke on me and instead of saying "Sorry, I saw the opportunity and I thought it would be too funny to let it go by," says "Sorry, the devil made me do it," I'm not going to start arranging for an exorcism.

The thing about LKH is a) she sounds like she means it, b) she does it while completely dismantling the characters, whereas normally this is associated with natural character development, c) she talks as if this is something that keeps her from doing bad things to her character. The number one rule of trying to find that happy medium is that you're getting into their heads trying to find what the characters would do, not to find what the characters want to happen and then abandon reality in the rest of the universe to hand it to them/protect them. What characters want is relevant only to motive for their own actons.

[easol.livejournal.com]

True -- many good authors change things as they go along, sometimes because of what the characters do, and sometimes because of what the plot demands.

My big problem with LKH saying that is that
A) she uses it as an excuse for anything people might not like, such as that horrible early sex scene in "Blood Noir." Ohh, it's not my fault, Jason and Anita decided to have sex and I had no choice in the matter!

B) she uses it as part of the Great Artiste Who Writes In Her Own Blood, because that's how Devoted She Is To Her Art! Which, incidentally, is a sign that she is not a great artist, because the true greats do not and have not had to notify us that, oh by the way THEY SUFFER AGONIES FOR THEIR GREAT GROUNDBREAKING STORIES! Oh woe!

C) she actually seems to mean it, which smacks more of mental illness than devotion to one's craft.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Personally I find a good character is like an old teddy bear -- a comforting presence in your writing that is somewhat LIKE a person, as filtered through YOUR mind.

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Flo

Amen to that.

I consider myself a basically organic writer in that detailed outlines get me no where quick. Usually these days I'm starting with, "hmn-this anthologys is about psychic vampires... okay. Got to write about pyschic vampires then." I try to understand who and what the characters are and then write what they WOULD do. I'm now "polishing" a novel. It's is taking as long as writing the damn thing. I need to cut almost a third of the book for the publisher and man does that teach you that not every word is important.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

The idea that writing is a craft has been lost by many so-called authors I think. I find authors who just let things grow organically without a tight plot to be mediocre usually. Unless the author is absolutely brilliant, a one in a million type, you'll get the sort of stories that meander around and are less true to the characters than these who began with a plan, imo.

I'm sorry if this offends some budding authors here but writing, like anything artistic, is a craft. You have to plan and work at it - you have to practice, plot, and hone your stories - not just stream of consciousness spew out some cool ideas.

I look at it this way - Da Vinci did sketches, in depth studies, false starts, and reconfiguring of his art and he WAS brilliant. So unless you're better than the masters, you probably need to write by numbers or it's not a craft.

There are probably only 10 authors alive today who could write something great organically. I think the rest is just mediocre filler that may climb up the Best Selling lists. LKH believes she's one of those 10.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Except that not all organic writing-by-numbers is stream-of-consciousness spew. For some writers, an outline is useless because the plot takes on a life of its own, and to stick with the outline would be creative suicide.

Especially since completely plotting it out and sticking to it, no matter how it twists in your mind, can completely destroy the creative process for those involved. It just doesn't work for some people, and that hardly makes them bad writers.

[darkese.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but I disagree. If you don't know whodunnit before you begin writing a mystery then it's going to be a mediocre read. If you don't know how your characters are going to develop and why then again, mediocre. That is unless you're a brilliant writer who can just spew out well-crafted stories. They are few and far between.

I'm not saying you can't write an interesting story doing it organically. I'm saying you'll never write anything great unless you learn all your craft. Which includes coming up with a plot, outlines, and characters before you begin. If a writer can't seem to do this than they need to work on their skills.

[torrain.livejournal.com]

You don't think it's possible to produce something organically, and then polish the plot and the characters and the themes--in other words, to make something great of it by doing some of the work *after* you begin, rather than before?

[brightlyiburn.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I joke about my characters "refusing to toe the line". It's basically just a way to shorten up the explanation.

What really happens (to those of us who aren't batshit crazy, anyway) is that for one reason or another--be it that you're very focused and into what you're writing or something similar--a character starts developing qualities and really fleshing out in ways that you never intended before you began the actual writing.
This is really no surprise. Most things tend to develop more once you start translating them from head to paper (or word processor, I guess).

But the author gets the final say in whether or not a character goes beyond its original purpose. Because one thing that is absolutely NOT a reason for this happening is your characters talking to you.
Saying that the characters "told" them what to do is just an author making up excuses and not taking responsibility for their own work.

So if your characters are waking you up in the night demanding you write something such-and-such a way, do yourself a favor: Roll over and go back to bed.

[dan-lian.livejournal.com]

As an aside to this--I do live action roleplay (LARP). I've had a situation where a character hasn't been played in nearly 6 month because she's having adjustment issues (so would you, if you went from being a ghoul for 50 years to being a vampire, and then a vampire who could manipulate time). While it frustrates me to not play, I feel I need to be true to the character and not RP when she, as an individual, would be having serious adjustment problems. While I don't write--she's still 'telling me what to do', and to stay true to the personality I've developed and behaviours crafted, it's necessary.

However, I do NOT go out and buy her mugs because "It's something she would like". I've had cases where I've forced situations for good games for others even if she wouldn't be 100% true to the personality, because it's what needed to be done.

[bubblefaerie.livejournal.com]

There were several times while I was reading that book where I was thinking "That's exactly what LKH doesn't do."

[darksongtrilogy.livejournal.com]

Huh. I used to say that my characters never do anything I don't tell them to do. Then I actually started fighting with them.

There's a line where it crosses from the creative process to outright insanity, and we know LKH threw herself over that line long ago. But my characters talk to me the same way my stories write themselves. I can consciously plot, problem solve, decide where my character is going when. But what is it that put these people and places in my head in the first place? Why does my main character have auburn hair instead of blonde or black? Why does she have the name she has, and why would I never for a second consider changing it?

For those of us that are writers, how do we come up with this stuff at all? Characters are an extension of that creative process, IMO. The places in my stories don't exist, but there are certain ways I'd never describe them, certain things that would just never be there. The places speak to me as much as my characters do, and all I could say to explain it is, "that's the way it is." That's how I saw it. I have no idea why I saw it that way.

It's the way the author sees the movie in their head, though most of us couldn't explain where the movie comes from.

I reject the LKH brand of character relations--that's just pretentious at best, or literally crazy at worse. I lean toward thinking she's trying to puff herself up as an artiste with that kind of talk. But I also reject the flat realism of "my characters do what I say they do." Mine don't, anymore than my stories go precisely the way I planned them to go. Other stuff comes up. I have to fight with the secondary characters to make them do what I want. (Which means I struggle, their dialogue doesn't come naturally, their actions are out of character, or at least the character I've imagined.) Fighting with characters is an extension of fighting with the worlds we've created. Whether it's our writer-subconsciousness we're fighting with or not, I don't know, but there IS a level of reality that makes places and people very definite in a writer's head.

[alondra-del-sol.livejournal.com]

My views seem to correlate with the majority here, but I'll add my two cents as well.

There is obviously a difference between how LKH relates to her characters, and how the rest of us relate to our characters and our entire stories to boot.

I've written and role-played for many a year. I got my start on Neopets back in Junior High (7'th grade I think) and now I'm a sophomore in college. So I've been around the block (and not in the Anita way kthx, lol).

In any case these struggles that we have with our characters/stories (those sane and not LKH in any instance) are all just parts of our creative processes. We talk about struggling with our characters or arguing with them, but in a certain non-insane sense. I mean I think we all take a step back and from time to time ask 'WW_D?', and most authors should ask that question, especially if they are stuck at a scene. Of course maybe the reasons you are struggling with your characters or perhaps characterization would be a more appropriate term since 'you the author are deciding how to characterize this being of your creation' is not even a character problem.

LKH no doubt has so many problems because she has basically butchered the writing process. Her books are going nowhere and therefore she is continually stuck. In most cases if you know where you are going the path will present itself. I've decided to do NaNoWriMo (god save my soul), and one of the first things I knew I had to do was decide how the story was going to end. Otherwise I will muddle through and not finish like when I decided to do it two years previously. I have even somewhat outlined my major points of 'how could I possibly be so cruel to my characters?'. Fantastic ideas in that completely sadistic 'it will be interesting to torture my characters' kind of way.

Will I get stuck occassionally? Most likely. Will I hit upon alternate story routes? Quite possibly. Will I accept them if they are not a means to my end? Nope.

As for immersing yourselves in the world of writing. I'm totally down with that. I have to have something to do when I'm not paying attention in class right? Lol. My subconcious is my own personal writing playground. After all ideas have to come from somewhere, and its kind of like playing the sims (except the sims shall never rock more than my daydreams). Most of the time I'm in control kind of like a choose your own adventure novel, but sometimes you sort of let the reigns go and let your subconcious spin whatever it desires. Sometimes you'll step back and go 'woah, totally not what I wanted/intended' and the idea is kind of stuck in there so you struggle with an image or idea you've accidentally created. It just takes some time and force of will to dispell, at other times it works out really great and you decide to put it in.

Somewhere along the way LKH gave up the reigns totally and completely and is either to lazy or too uncaring to take them up again. I could see either as she seems to view writing as such a chore. I mean I understand having to sit down and make yourself write, because inspiration doesn't always hit you with a divine light and you sit down and churn out X many pages of pure genius. Like any other talent it takes hard work and dedication, and like my music instructors always told me 'practice makes perfect' at least as perfect as a human being can get.

(Saxophone players FTW!)

[longtail.livejournal.com]

I sometimes "ask" my characters questions. I usually do this if I'm stuck and I need to kind of disengage a bit and pretend I'm talking to somebody else. It usually helps.

I get the "Character takes over" moments a lot and it usually means that I've tapped into the part of my brain that figured things out before the rest of it did. Usually my characters "win" because those moments are good scenes. But I always come back to them later and sometimes they do get the ax anyway.

And I have no problems torturing my characters. I enjoy it. :P

[morriganscrow.livejournal.com]

As a long time role player and DM/GM, I will put characters I'm writing about through mental psycho-dramas and scenarios, to see what happens in specific situations. However, I always keep them true to their individual personalities/beliefs.
I might run them through the same scene several times, making different choices each time, to see how they might change as individuals - but NEVER do they dictate what I write.

[queenbetsy.livejournal.com]

MaryJanice Davidson (UNDEAD AND UNEASY) was on one of those panels at Romantic Times 2006, and when the writer next to her rhapsodized about how her characters talked to her, MJD burst into a spate of giggles, sobered up, nodded sympathetically, then coughed, "Crazycrazycrazy" into her fist. Needless to say, half the audience was on the floor.