Things I'd Like to See More Of

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about the Urban Fantasy/Paranormal Romance genre yesterday, and I realized that almost every single series likes to rehash the same tropes over and over again, as if these are the only possible ways to write. And since these are the only things that get written about, there are a large number of ideas that never get to see the light of day. That said, here are the things I'd like to see/like to see more of, and I was wondering if anyone else has their own opinions of what they'd like to see in the genre more.



1. Master vampires who don't base their boundaries off of human divisions. For example, in Anita Blake, all of the master vampires are masters of cities. Why end at the city? Who controls the surrounding suburbs? What about small towns in the middle of nowhere? Do they answer to the master of the nearest big city, or do they have their own form of government. Also, in other series that I've read, the master vampires are the masters of a clear cut area, like a state or a country. Why? The boundaries that we know of today haven't always been like that? The vampire, if it's old enough, would probably be more used to the way lands were divided before the humans drew the official lines. (This may just be me though, wishing that there was a master vampire of the Louisiana Purchase who refuses to take into account that the states have been divided up since then.)

2. A heroine who despite the charms and advances of the sexy manipulative local master vampire continues to be a committed relationship... with her fellow female coworker.

3. If there shall be an OT3/threesome within the series, I wish at least one other member of the party is of the same gender as the protagonist. It'd make the "I love this guy, but I also love this guy, so whatever shall I do? I know! Threesome!" a lot more bearable and not so... contrived.

4. An overweight protagonist.

5. An extremely old protagonist who is the best there is because of their age and experience. Not because of sheer dumb luck.

6. A vampire couple or vampire/human couple who gets around the whole can never-have-child angst thing by adoption.

7. Double points if they raise said human child to become a lawyer/judge/senator so that they can help pass laws that will benefit the vampire race.

8. Triple points if said human lawyer/judge/senator is not a main character/does not angst about their mixed past whatsoever.

9. A heroine who falls in love with the manipulative master vampire because he is manipulative, and does not try to change him in any shape or form because that's what makes him attractive to her.

10. Double points if said master vampire does not fall in love with her in return, but knows that she is useful and proceeds to use her without feeling any remorse or guilt.

11. Quadruple points if both said heroine and master vampire understand their relationship with each other and are both TOTALLY FINE with it.


... I think that's it for now.

Comments

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

So, you're looking for a book with a fat, old heroine with little to no self worth, who adopts a baby with their abusive vampire lover in order to raise said child to conform to their career expectations of it? Gee, I wonder why no one has written this staggering work of genius yet.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't mean for all of them to be taken together at once. But... you have to admit that it'd be more interesting than a lot of the drivel being published right now.

And as for the last three points, they were written in contempt with the whole "heal with the power of love" thing that I've been seeing a lot of recently.

[avahgdu.livejournal.com]

I was in Waldenbooks the other day and due to the upcoming release of the new Meyers book there was a whole wall of vampire stuff. All of these series, right up front.

And I wished there was just ONE series like this for gay men. Michael Thomas Ford should write one.

[reno-macleod.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with you. Why have a woman at the helm at all? Buffy is SO overdone.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

What a cool idea that is.

[delilahkanes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the genre is pretty limited. But one series comes to mind - Tanya Huff's Smoke and Shadow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_Huff#Smoke_and_Shadows) series. The protagonist, Tony, is a gay wizard and his ex-boyfriend is Henry Fitzroy, a very possessive vampire who still lurks around Tony to save the day. Tony has other relationships in the series, too. His homosexuality isn't the biggest part of the plot, but it isn't ignored.

I can think of a couple more fantasy novels with gay characters, but I'm not as entrenched in urban fantasy.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

I think there is one, and I think I own it, but I can't remember the title!

Remind me to tell you when I get home. ;-)

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

I know I have a book somewhere which is called 'Revenge of the Fat White Vampire' or something similar where the (male) protagonist is morbidly obese. I suppose it's a romance in that he pines for his lost love.

[denouement16.livejournal.com]

Was the eponymous vampire fat when he died or did he get fat off of blood? Just a little morbid curiosity.

[siedhr.livejournal.com]

1. I'd like to see more Marla Manson books because they are GOOD urban fantasy.
2. Ditto for Harry Dresden.
3. Urban fantasy without vampires or werewolves. There are so many cool mythical creatures out there that are unexplored. Like djinns, kitsunes or tengu just off the top of my head.
4. A cool heroine/hero outside the first two examples I already mentioned.
5. A heroine who's actually feminine. Whining is not being feminine, M. Liu and Lilith Saintcrow.
6. Real vampires. Bring back Dracula, for f#$@ sake.

I'm actually so over urban fantasy except for you know, Marla Manson and Harry Dresden.

[duchym.livejournal.com]

Whining or bitchy. Too many urban fantasy books feature women who are either whiney or bitchy (or in the case of Anita Blake, BOTH whiney and bitchy).

Yes, would also love to see some cool mythical creatures from other cultures. There have got to be some great mythical creatures from Asia or Africa, for example!

[asilentpart.livejournal.com]

Kelley Armstrong's character Paige is an overweight web page designer - and her boyfriend is a big academic nerd with mediocre looks, which is also pretty cool. She's not significantly overweight, but it did make me happy to see a protagonist that wasn't modeled after a 15 year old boy's wet dream.

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

That is awesome. Good for Armstrong.

[leoin.livejournal.com]

9-11 would be so interesting. I love a good messed up relationship. lol

[entropyastaroth.livejournal.com]

I would like to see more urban fantasy that focuses on one mythology and researches it. Instead of throwing in everything the author can think of. (I read Snake Agent by Liz Williams, that was interesting and based entirely on chinese myths). Focus on a few elements and do it well.

I would like to see more love for the genre instead of just love for the idea of having hot sex with a vampire/werewolf.

I would like to see more about how a society were supernatural element exists would work.

I would like to see people react sanely on the supernatural elements. Considering for example how AB vampires operate I think Humans First has a very good point.

Nitpicks.

[wolfychan.livejournal.com]

#1 makes some sense because vampires have to go where the blood is, so it makes sense they'd base their operations around large human populations.

#7 kinda skeeves me out, anyone who raises a child to be a tool for their agenda better not be a good guy.

As for #4, I'd rather have a protagonist who simply doesn't go on about their weight like a 14-year-old girl, and thus the audience never even needs to know.


It's good points in total though, and I like #5 and #11 terribly much. (I think #10 is already happening in the series, but somehow even the author doesn't get it.)

Re: Nitpicks.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

#7 kinda skeeves me out, anyone who raises a child to be a tool for their agenda better not be a good guy.

Well... I didn't say they had to be good. I didn't even say the child had to be good. I was just thinking that if I was a less-than-noble vampire, somehow adopted a kid, had all of this money at my disposal, and was under/misrepresented in the legal system... what would I try to push my kid into?

[shanrina.livejournal.com]

1. General urban fantasy: more books that don't have a strong romance subplot/that aren't paranormal romance. I like paranormal romance, but I also like urban fantasy that doesn't have romance-y stuff in it.

2. Specific to vampires: vampires that don't angst so much about losing their humanity. They're legitimately not human anymore, but that doesn't mean they can't ever have any fun.

3. Actually, the part about non-humans never having any fun isn't really specific to vampires. I'd love to see more fun-loving partiers who weren't portrayed as jerks and who weren't the villains.

As far as your list goes, I would love to see 1-8, and maybe 9 if used in conjunction with 11. Not so sure about 10, though.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

I like paranormal romance, but I also like urban fantasy that doesn't have romance-y stuff in it.

Like I've told other people, I like fantasy with a dash of romance, not romance with a dash of fantasy. So many books nowadays seem to fall into the latter category.

As far as your list goes, I would love to see 1-8, and maybe 9 if used in conjunction with 11. Not so sure about 10, though.

And yeah, as far as 9 through 11 go, I put them in there because I am sick and fed up with the sensitive!vampire shit Anne Rice/other people like Anne Rice started. Nowadays they either start out spineless, or become spineless throughout the course of the series, usually as a direct side-effect from being exposed to the protagonist too much. Sometimes I want to summon Bram Stoker's spirit back from the dead so he claim his revenge on the vampire publishing market today.

[kd-lalala.livejournal.com]

You know what I wanna see in these books? A bitch. I don't mean a "a chick everyone calls a bitch because she's so OMG strong and personable" I mean a REAL bitch. I'm talking someone who when she finds out she's being manipulated by the master vampire she dumps everything so she can get back at him and make his life hell, and his servants' lives hell along with everyone who knows him. I'm talking a hard core, nasty, she devil who everyone hates with GOOD REASON.

Yea, it'd take some seriously good planning to pull that one off as a series but even just as a quick parody that'd just make my day. :P

[siedhr.livejournal.com]

Marla Mason. She's a BITCH. In a good way.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

A vampire that own the town's blood bank or runs a blood drive. Free blood, or it costs 15$ and tshirt.

I knew I forgot something. Seriously, this is the reason I've never been able to understand vegetarian vampires. Medical blood. It exists for a reason.

[denouement16.livejournal.com]

For example, in Anita Blake, all of the master vampires are masters of cities. Why end at the city? Who controls the surrounding suburbs? What about small towns in the middle of nowhere? Do they answer to the master of the nearest big city, or do they have their own form of government.

This was indirectly addressed in AB's world in Bloody Bones. JC specifically states that Branson's population had grown enough to support its own vampire population and that he agreed to losing this part of his territory to Seraphina. Taking a big leap and assuming some sort of consistency in AB (I know, that's not wise). It seems that vampire MoCs have a territory kinda like archdioceses (sp?) in the Catholic chuch. For instance the archdiocese of St. Louis includes a much larger geographic area than just St. Louis.

Going from the evidence in Bloody Bones, I would think that the MoC controls a large geographic territory around the city itself, and that this can change based on (living) human population demographics.

[othellia.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I wasn't sure if it had been addressed in the books, and I didn't feel like rereading them. My motto on the world-building of the Anita Blake series: if it wasn't mentioned within the first eight books, it will never be mentioned at all.

[ichini-sanshigo.livejournal.com]

A while ago I drew up a personal bitch-list of plots and setting aspects that LKH could have explored to help build her shaky world. Now, I can't find it. But some of the points I had on that meandering and somewhat incoherent list would fit well in your defy-the-paranormal-cliches challenge. Off the top of my head:

1. LKH actually got this one right. Sorta (see part b). If supernatural creatures actually existed, it would significantly affect society. For them to go unnoticed in today's high-tech world with its ever-expanding population, the numbers of para-creatures would have to be quite small. All those stories where these large populations of magical creatures are somehow able to evade discovery by mundane society (Adams & Clamp, and Butcher's Harry Dresden series, for 2 random examples) make me scoff. Of the authors I've read, only LKH and Kim Harrison have gotten this right. But...

1b. Neither have really managed to explore how this has affected the history of their universe. Harrison's is somewhat forgiveable since her series is pretty action-packed and she's only on book 7(?), but Hamilton's got like, 19(?) freaking books in this series.

2. It's hokey, but I'd like to see a vegetarian carnivore-shifter.

3. I'd also like to see weres who shift into big cats, and actually behave like big cats.

4. I really want a wider variety of personality types for both male and female characters, but especially for females. I've bitched on this comm before about the proliferance (this may not be a real word, but I like it better than profusion) of Snappy Sues. Others have bitched about the abundance of pretty boy vamps in the genre. There's so many different ways for people to be that there's really no excuse for these cookie-cutter personalities in the genre.

5. In the same vein (heh heh),I'd like to see more introverted heroines. Yes, you can be shy and quiet without being weak or neurotic. Where the hell are the strong silent women?

6. I'd like to see more pack politics. So far, the stories I've read seem to only explore the alpha/dominance fight part of pack politics. Anyone who's ever worked in any sort of organizational hierarchy knows that there's much more to the internecine than biting other people's throats.

7. Post-HEA relationships. I'd like to read about a hero/heroine in a committed, steady relationship with a partner who isn't an asshole. Not necessary, but bonus points if the pair works together, fighting side by side and all that good crap. I don't wanna see lovey-dovey honey raindrops sunshine happiness all the time in said relationship. Conflict is cool, but I want to see them resolve their problems like, ya know, adults.

So yeah. That's what I'd like.

[dan-lian.livejournal.com]

1b. Neither have really managed to explore how this has affected the history of their universe.

I agree on this. I can kind of recall that in Harrison, Tomatoes Are BAD and the black market pizzerias... but there is a lot more that can be developed.

[easol.livejournal.com]

A vampire who is not devastatingly beautiful.

Vampires and weres who are NOT obsessed with getting more power and influence and crap like that. How about a vampire who is powerful, but happy to just hang out in his mansion and play pranks on the neighborhood kids?

A vampire who was turned into said vampire later in life than his early twenties. How about fifties? A nice paternal-looking bloodsucker.

Reasonably endowed males.

Female characters who actually acknowledge that you cannot change a bad boy, and that only he can change himself... and she actually sticks by it.

[christraven.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see most of those, too. In fact, I'd love to see someone write a book with about ninety percent of what everyone's mentioned here. It'd be a far superior effort to anything most put out by any of the authors talked about on this comm

The only problem with your second point is that in most cases, those with power tend to become targets of those seeking power. Granted, I could see a 500 year old vampire who is happy with what he's got - and doesn't actively seek out more power simply for the sake of having it - but what about the hot young turks who come barging around his territories trying to stir up shit? Power corrupts, but it also attracts the corruptible.

And what happens when another, equally powerful (or even more powerful) opponent comes along? It might be an unavoidable consequence to have to gain more power just in the act of trying to maintain the status quo.

[disdainful-soul.livejournal.com]

I like looking at these lists to see what I could use in my own writing, or see if I am doing something right. I lolled at this one:

6. A vampire couple or vampire/human couple who gets around the whole can never-have-child angst thing by adoption.

My MC's brother was recently turned into a vampire and his girlfriend sort of spilled her guts out to my MC. One of the things MC suggested was that she act as the female requirement required for MC and vampire's brother and boyfriend to have a kid.

She suggested the men get the kid during the day, and girlfriend and vampire get it during the night. And since the dads are a cop, a doctor and a vampire, it's like the "when I grow up I wanna be..." trifecta!

icon musings

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

Heh. Jun is TOTALLY a Zutaran, isn't she...

[artemis10002000]

I agree with so many of the points you made, but the one that really got me was #9. Because that is something that always annoyed me about romance with good heroine/bad hero. Why are the authors and heroines so obsessed with "fixing" the hero? Since I hate it when friends or relatives try to "fix", I would be so happy about a heroine who just accepts the man she loves as the man she fell in love with and doesn't try to make him into something else. Besides, I think manipulative and dangerous vampires are a lot more fun than nice ones.

[yaoihuntresse.livejournal.com]

-Different kinds of a vampires who are more than just Anne Rice clones: ugly ones, ones that drink other fluids instead of blood, ones that were created by science, reverse ones (burn via moonlight and walk in the day).
-Threeway relationship that acted like REAL poly-relationships. Dealing this the jealousy, having the hero actually make some sacrifices, etc.)
-A law that all urban fantasy writers must undergo a psyche evaluation before being allowed to be published, thus preventing headcases using their writing as a way to get back at everyone who "screwed them over" or use it to probe how cool of a person they are.

[duchym.livejournal.com]

I want to see how a vampire who is hundreds of years old would REALLY act.

Certainly being hundreds of years old would not make one seek constant orgies like in Hamilton's books. Certainly even orgies (and sex in general) would grow old over the centuries - particularly as there would be literally no biological need for sex, as vampire reproduction takes place in another way.

What would you do if you were hundreds of years old to keep off boredom? How would you keep sane? How would you keep up with the fast changing modern society and tech without outing yourself?

And how would you deal with your REAL need and drive to reproduce vampire offspring by blood exchange? Would that drive be as strong as a human sex drive? Why or why not?

How would relationships between vampire "parents" and "children" work out - with now two major predators eventually competing in the same area for the same prey?

Vampires could be really interesting and cool if treated like the separate predator species they should be, rather than the way overused emo pretty boy sex it up with humans even though they are another species shit.

Humans do not sex it up with OUR protein sources - we do not have sex with cattle or chickens or lambs or hogs. Why would vampires become romatically or sexually interested in humans? It would be like bestiality for them...

[ichini-sanshigo.livejournal.com]

"Benighted" was a a great book. I wish more authors could be as thorough as Whitfield. Maybe a bit lighter, though.