Other Author Weighs In: Armintrout

[naeko.livejournal.com]

As a response to Hamilton's delightful blog about how all other authors are doing it wrong, Jennifer Armintrout had some things to say.

Barfing On My Keyboard

"Bleeding On My Keyboard" begins innocently enough with Laurell lamenting how difficult it's been for her to work on her latest manuscript. Fair enough, I've been there. I can get on board with feeling like your own writing is trying to straight up murder you. In fact, I would wager that pretty much every writer has felt that way now and again.

Laurell disagrees with me:
Some very successful writers don’t seem to feel that emotional connection to their work, or at least not to the degree I do. I used to envy them until I realized the price of that cool distance. They write like they feel with less depth, less of themselves on the page. It is a safer way to write, less frightening, less hurtful, less pain for the writer, but the writing shows that.

This is where it all starts to go a little wrong. As a writer, I resent the implication that unless "I’ve screamed at my computer, cursed other characters, fought and lost to them," I haven't managed to make a connection to my work. I love my job. I wouldn't love it if it constantly frightened and hurt me, and I don't think it needs to.

(More at the link, of course)


This has been brought up elsewhere, but not here, yet, so I'm relaying it for those of you who haven't seen it. I personally think Armintrout has made some good points, and I like to see when other professional authors calls LKH out on her shit. She likes to put up a wall of, "haters gonna hate" and just assume that all the people who don't fall at her feet and worship what she writes are just not intelligent enough or just don't get her, or whatever other excuse du jour she's using. I like seeing another professional, published author take issue with her words. To me it seems like she might be at least slightly more likely to take them seriously.

Then again, she's not listened before, so maybe I'm wasting perfectly good hope.

Comments

[fangedsekhmet.livejournal.com]

They know that the skin of let’s pretend is there, always, they never let themselves sink past a certain point, or perhaps their world, their muse, their imagination is more shallow than mine.

D:D:D:

The ego, it burns!

[lilitu93.livejournal.com]

Armintrout's been in my TBR pile for a while now, and I think she just moved up a bit higher.

Hmm, I wonder who this earlier post (http://jenniferarmintrout.blogspot.com/2009/07/public-service-announcement-you-are.html) could be about.

[moonbeamdancer.livejournal.com]

It's nice to see that we aren't the only ones who think LKH is a bit nuts sometimes. It's very nice to see that someone else can see the fucking crazy for what it is.

[devilmet67.livejournal.com]

We had a nice little soiree about this over on Amazon, complete with a token troller, until Armintrout herself stopped by to say hi.

http://www.amazon.com/Jennifer-Armintrout-on-LKH/forum/FxA39DYXK3USRB/Tx3D7Y0DRM4B6W6/1/ref=cm_cd_tp_ft_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=0425234339

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

"3. I didn't write the blog out of professional jealousy or "cattiness". I would love to have the word "catty" removed from any discussion of female authors from now on. When Nicholas Sparks routinely slams the romance genre, no one calls him "catty". They call him "outspoken" and "opinionated". "Catty" is a word we use to describe women who aren't acting like sugar, spice, and everything nice, and it's bs."

I think I love this woman.

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

BTW, that's the 4th page of the Amazon post devilmet67 linked to.

[pith]

I agree with the thought of it ("I would love to have the word "catty" removed from any discussion of female authors from now on"). However, saying "we" use it to "describe women who aren't acting like sugar, spice, and everything nice" is a generalization on her part, not unlike some LKH has made.

I've read one of JA's books and didn't like it enough to continue, but on the whole, I respect her views on writing.

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

However, saying "we" use it to "describe women who aren't acting like sugar, spice, and everything nice" is a generalization on her part, not unlike some LKH has made.

Good point. It does seem to be assuming a kind of hive mind perspective.

[pith]

(Wow. I totally mangled that sentence in my original comment. Yikes.)

Honestly, that "women who aren't acting like sugar, spice, and everything nice" line sounds almost verbatim like something LKH would say, which is a bit creepy. Personally, I use "catty" for any gender; it's a behaviour word for me, so that's why I dislike JA's generalization.

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

I think it didn't get the creepiness factor at first because I use "catty" to describe the behavior of...cats. Now that I'm reading it again. I'm getting sort of a "Women who don't act in stereotypically feminine ways are totes raging against the machine and are so much better than meek women!" I don't know if that's what you're getting from it, but it's an interesting perspective change. You're right about it sounding as if it could come from the desk of LKH. Thanks for pointing that out=)

[pith]

It is indeed from The Crow. As is this one :)

I agree with the root of what I think JA was trying to say. Sadly, outspoken women today are still often insulted. But I also think you can be outspoken and honest without being hurtful. And I certainly don't think there's any one way to be a woman, or to be a feminist, or to be anything, really. I don't know if she meant it as a slight against women who are "sugar, spice, and everything nice" (I certainly hope not), but given the tone of the rest of that entry, I don't think she was necessarily being kind to that group of women either.

At the risk of going waaaay OT... I think there are a lot of ways to fight for feminism. My mom was a stay-at-home mom until I was 12. She wanted to make sure her kids were raised with love, with values she held dear. In some people's eyes, she was probably "trapped" in her home, unable to pursue her dreams, etc. To her, she raised four smart, kind, capable children and taught us to respect others. How, exactly, is that not feminist to some people? Does not compute to me. So yeah, fighting the good fight for feminism takes many forms, and while JA had some good points, I think she really failed in the execution of some of them.

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

That's an awesome icon=)

I agree with you about fighting for feminism in different way. It's like, you don't always have to be a Kathleen Hanna or Beatrix Kiddo to get your message across and saying one has to follow the Angry Girl Archetype is really dismissive of women in general.
We are not the Borg, right?

[magdalen77.livejournal.com]

You see I kind of took her comment about cattiness another way. That people, at least some people, characterize a critical outspoken woman as "just being catty" thus minimizing their criticism. And it's far more likely for a woman's critique be diminished in this way while a man's critique is taken seriously. I really don't think it was a slam against women who are "sugar and spice and everything nice" (but who really is :P).

[fadeinthewash.livejournal.com]

That was the same impression I had.

[pith]

Many people do unfairly criticize outspoken women, but an author should know better than to use generalizations like "we". She could have easily said "Many people" or "Too many people". That's what I dislike, because LKH formats her arguments in a similar fashion.

OT

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

Is that icon from The Crow?

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

?

"Sugar and spice and everything nice" is a nursery rhyme (the answer to the question "What are little girls made of?")

I think her point is that "catty" is a gendered insult, and it is often used when women are not conforming to a gendered stereotype that they should be "sweet" (the "we" there is "people in general").

I don't see any implication that there is anything wrong with being sweet, just that there is something wrong with people in general assuming that all women should be sweet, and using gendered insults to dismiss them when they are not.

A disagreement among male authors would be unlikely to be called "catty" but rather "a dust-up" or "a fight" or something more active or evocative of physical conflict.

[pith]

I'm well aware of its origins, thanks :) I'm saying the argument and the wording are uncomfortably close to LKH's.

Many people do unfairly criticize outspoken women, but an author should know better than to use generalizations like "we". Authors make their living off words, so they should know what the implications of those words are. She could have easily said "Many people" or "Too many people". That's what I dislike, because LKH formats her arguments in a similar fashion.

I use "catty" to describe a type of behaviour regardless of the sex/gender of the person in question, so I disagree with her general "we". Is she then saying she is also guilty of using "catty" in that way?

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

I think you are picking nits. "We" = "many people" is a very common usage in the US, where Armintrout is from.

[pith]

Members of this community have been far more exacting when dissecting LKH's use of language. If we're going to subject LKH to that sort of scrutiny, it's only fair that other authors are treated in a similar fashion.

[naeko.livejournal.com]

I hate myself for what I'm about to do but:

THIS!

[putana.livejournal.com]

Will have to check her out - funny that I'm now finding authors to read from people who call LKH on her idiocy. ...but then again, it is damn hard to find decent fantasy/paranormal (I refuse to use 'urban romance') books these days.

[putana.livejournal.com]

From her Amazon discussion reply -

I didn't write the blog out of professional jealousy or "cattiness". I would love to have the word "catty" removed from any discussion of female authors from now on. When Nicholas Sparks routinely slams the romance genre, no one calls him "catty". They call him "outspoken" and "opinionated". "Catty" is a word we use to describe women who aren't acting like sugar, spice, and everything nice, and it's bs.

Oh, I love <3

[tooimpurenangel.livejournal.com]

I seriously want to buy a bunch of her books for that comment alone.

[gwynethfar.livejournal.com]

Holy shit. When worlds fucking collide, man.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

I think I did an inner SQUEE while reading this.

[cekhmet.livejournal.com]

I love Armintrout. Her Blood Ties trilogy was really, really good and her blog shows off how awesome of a person she is. She's also written about LKH before, though without naming her. I'm glad an author is calling out Ms. Snowflake.

[kessie.livejournal.com]

Wow, someone came in looking for her books yesterday evening. Worlds colliding!

[amosby.livejournal.com]

When did she become Ms. Snowflake? I've been away from the world of LKH for months now and I guess I missed some things? I like this Armintrout chick's sass. Can I still say "sass" without setting women back??? I swear I use the same word for men.

LKH,:sigh:, the ego on this woman makes me want to do violent things hahaha. Ugh I blame the fans...or the Troos (am I using that right?) because the amount of ass-kissing they do is mind altering I tell ya.