How Do you spell Anti-hero?

[amosby.livejournal.com]

Apparently LKH spells it ANITA. On another forum that I run the subject of anti-heroes came up because someone was trying to validate some of Anita's behavior...

"I think part of the issue is that Anita Blake is sort of caught in the same problem that has caught characters like Wonder Woman and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Basically, Anita Blake has become a role model due to the comparatively small number of female heroes in fiction. She's required to stand for all women everywhere and be an empowered figure. The problem is that Anita Blake is a noir heroine, much like the characters in Philip Marlowe and the problem with those is that they are not role models. They are anti-heroes, which means they are divorced of heroic qualities or possessed of staggering personal flaws."

"Anita Blake is a woman possessed of the ability to kill without hesitation and the willingness to be as hard as necessary to get the job done. Her prevailing quality is her ruthlessness and willingness to do anything to succeed in the pursuit of her goal, which is to protect her loved ones. Hilariously, this means that in other fiction Anita would be on the path to darkness. Anakin Skywalker's fatal flaw is what Anita Blake has in spades. I think part of the problem is that LKH tends to act as if Anita's consistent ruthlessness is somehow the best answer. When, in fact, in history it is quite the opposite and usually leads to more problems than it solves."

Now I gave up on this series a long time ago, but when I read this I felt like maybe it wasn't too far off...the one flaw in this rational is that I do not believe LKH ever planned it this way. I honestly feel that this is only a possible explanation of the downward spiral of this series because a fan could not accept that someone would accidentally write a character so hopelessly flawed. So what do people think...anti-hero or mary sue with a really dark side?

Comments

[tartful-dodger.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I think that self insertion characters are rarely planned as anti heroes, because more often than not they're a reflection of the author's own morality.

[nicbemused.livejournal.com]

I think that LKH thinks that Anita is a Hero in all ways, no anti about it. She seems to have no conception that a large number of readers see many of Anita's actions or motivations as Bad.

[cousinmary.livejournal.com]

Agreed. And anytime you see her interact with fans, anyone who brings it up is just ignored. I think LKH believes Anita does no wrong.

[eve-from-oz.livejournal.com]

My mind boggled at the point where they compared Wonder Woman to Buffy and Anita (not to mention comparing Buffy to Anita)

But I agree with other commentors that I don't think Anita is an anti-hero because, as far as I recall, LKH doesn't acknowledge at any point that the bad things she does are *bad*

[world-dancer.livejournal.com]

"My mind boggled at the point where they compared Wonder Woman to Buffy and Anita (not to mention comparing Buffy to Anita)"

Yeah, I had problems with that, too. Though Buffy did get somewhat bad at the end, what with near statutory rape of a student and all. Still not Anita level.

I will agree with the original comment that Anita was written as an anti-hero. Hamilton mentions she was based in part on some noir books she'd read.

This begs the question, however, of if Hamilton understood what an anti-hero is or if she's just forgotten the anti-hero origins because much of the negativity toward Hamilton is her apparent cluelessness that Anita does anything bad.

[knitterleigh.livejournal.com]

Anita's hordes of men: "Sorry you had to willing brain-rape that guy, I know it must have been soooooo hard for you!" *Anita flounce; her life is so hard... and back is so bruised*

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Back when I was reading Flirt, I think it would have been a brilliant stroke if LKH had actually planned Anita's descent into villainy and that book finally acknowledged that Anita had come full circle: she has become the thing she initially fought against and loathed. And then we can explore the character on the Dark Side and how she now has to dodge the law and possibly other hunters that may want to take her out because she's become a threat to everyone else but the people seh cares about.

But no! That would be interesting. Anita's actions are consistently portrayed as The Right Thing To Do, no matter how awful they may be with zero consequences and a lot of convoluted back-up to reaffirm that it was The Right Thing To Do. So, Mary Sue to the core.

[world-dancer.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I actually thought Anita was on an interesting path in a "fall into darkness" kind of way, capped by the finger chopping in Full Moon.

But no, that story arc seems to have been forgotten, and Anita is always right.

Though I find it deeply ironic that if you reread book 1, Anita has become Nichola (whatever her name was). The fact that Anita & Hamilton show no awareness of this is just really really strange.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

By Flirt/Bullet, Anita's pretty much become Belle Morte. But Belle Morte is still evil, okay? Anita does things for the right reasons, and everyone is so quick to point this out to Anita so any moment of awareness gets swept away.

There are so many arcs/plot threads that have just been dropped or further complicated by things unnecessarily (second triumvirate, I AM LOOKING AT YOU!) it's so frustrating. Throwing more superpowers won't make the problems left by these unfinished pices of plot go away. *twitch*

[cousinmary.livejournal.com]

Preach it!

Anita has pretty much become -every- female villain from the first few books. If it was a female character that abused her powers, Anita has moved up the ladder to fill that role. Only somehow she doesn't see it that way. O_o

The dropped plots are making me loopy too. Especially all the powerful characters that are apparently roaming around the city, doing... something.

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

The problem is that Anita Blake is a noir heroine, much like the characters in Philip Marlowe and the problem with those is that they are not role models. They are anti-heroes, which means they are divorced of heroic qualities or possessed of staggering personal flaws."

It does seem like this is what LKH drew inspiration for the series from. Where I disagree with the OP is in the (I think?) assumption that LKH did at any point realise that acting like a noir hero is not a good or admirable thing. Like any angsty, petulant adolescent (or any adult who never outgrew that state... and LKH is far from the only one of those) she really does seem to think, judging both from her writing and from her own comments, that the best and most admirable thing to do is defend yourself and the people you personally care about with extreme prejudice, and to hell with everyone who is outside of your little circle of friends and family - they are all stupid and evil and Don't Understand You, anyway.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

The killing isn't what makes her terrible. It's the rape, the treatment of her sweeties that is wrong on so many levels, the hypocrisy, the self-absorption, the intense misogyny, and the fact that the author supports all of this and does not consider them to be bad things at all nor does she present them as such.

[knitterleigh.livejournal.com]

Agreed. The violence and killing makes sense. It's all the stuff she does to her men that make me hate her.

Also, fun thing is to go back and read the earlier books knowing what we know now. Old Anita would have wiped out new Anita in a heartbeat!

[amosby.livejournal.com]

These are all things I brought up in the original thread. I don't see how anyone could be held up as any type of hero after all the things this character has done. From what I understand of anti-heroes, they walk a fine line between good and bad, they don't erase all lines so that they can rewrite them to fit whatever horrible scheme they think up. That's not how it works...LKH is delusional as usual

[world-dancer.livejournal.com]

Not quite. Here's some links to fun but accurate descriptions of Anti-Heroes. Anita is a Type V, subtrope '90s Anti-Hero

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero

Sliding scale of Anti-heroes Type V:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes

"Far from Most Definitely Not A Villain, and either lacking any heroic attributes whatsoever, or being so ridiculously extreme in their sadism, bloodthirst, ruthlessness, or even Disproportionate Retribution that any potential signs of genuine benevolence are near completely drowned out. Frequently they are classified as heroes only because they fight Complete Monsters and/ or Omnicidal Maniacs.

At best the line between a Type V antihero and a Villain Protagonist is extremely hard to define.

However, it should be noted that if the conflict is Evil Versus Evil, the antihero is the lesser of two evils. "

And the '90's Anti-Hero:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NinetiesAntiHero

"The Nineties Anti Hero is the polar opposite of your typical Silver Age superhero. Not only are they flawed, they may lack any heroic attributes. However, they're rarely ineffectual or pathetic (in the eyes of the writer, anyway), generally instead being totally committed to whatever they're doing at the moment. They have no compunction about killing villains, and indeed, this may extend to anyone who gets in their way; facing The Cape or any hero who does mind, they sneer at them as outdated. Their super-powers tend towards the lethal as well; growing spikes out of one's body, being able to telepathically boil blood, or turning any item into a gun, and are usually either demonic, or technological in origin...

In Terms of characterization, they have three modes: Brooding; Sarcastic; and Badass (or just psychotic). How much of any one side they show over the others is the main thing that sets them apart from each other. "

[amosby.livejournal.com]

Anita is sarcastic yes...but I do no think she is a badass, nor do I find her brooding...but that could just be my personal opinion slipping in there. She doesn't brood...she whines, and she's not a badass...she's reactionary. If no one did anything she would just be another animator. She doesn't go out looking for a fight nor does she try and prevent the bloodshed. She doesn't do anything until several people are dead or captured and she has no choice but to kill someone. She's just lame lol

[world-dancer.livejournal.com]

Badass means "of formidable skill" which she does have with guns and necromancy, or "ready to cause or get into trouble." I haven't considered if she's big on causing trouble, but she's certainly always ready to get into it.

And I do equate whininess with brooding. We only hear her as whiney because we're in her head.

[knitterleigh.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I have recently gone back and started reading the series from the beginning (I JUST moved and have nothing else to read but old anita and romance novels). In the second book she's taunting the voodoo queen who amkes horrible monsters. WHY WOULD YOU TAUNT THE VOODOO QUEEN WHO MAKES HORRIBLE MONSTERS?!?!?! It's not "bad-ass" it's stupid!! And then she's surprised there are dead people in her apartment. *Headdesk*

When I was reading those that 16-17 Anita was kind of awesome. Now that I'm 25, she is, at the very grown up age of 24, an immature and whiny drama queen.

[fadeinthewash.livejournal.com]

Hah, you and I started reading AB at the same age, but more startlingly--- oh shit, I'm currently Anita's age! Oh my, my, my, my.

Of course, I'm also roommates with 3 girls who are all 1-3 years older than I am/Anita is and they have "immature and whiny drama queen" down, though maybe not as well as Anita. Then again, I actively block out their whining, so who really knows. Anyway, obviously physical ages don't mean much these days.

Jeebus, I'd forgotten all about Anita's prolonged youthful mid-20sdom... *walks off shaking head*

Yes!

[mariadeangeles.livejournal.com]

I started reading them at the same time and also thought that her actions were awesome back then. Its interesting how our mentality can change. Is she really only 24? I thought she was at least twenty eight by now. I discovered the books kind of late and she was already twenty one in the first ones wasnt she?

Re: Yes!

[fadeinthewash.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure she started out as older than 21 since she had both graduated college and had been working as an animator at least a little while. However, the last several books have slowed way down in terms of much time in Anita's life they cover. We're unlikely to ever see her age out of adult youth.

Re: Yes!

[magdalen77.livejournal.com]

I got the impression that she was about 24 in Guilty Pleasures. Which would make sense with being a couple of years out of college. But I think that LKH has sworn that Anita will never hit 30.

Re: Yes!

[amosby.livejournal.com]

Yeah she was 24 when they started and should be at 28 now...LKH can warp anything though so she might find a way to stop time so that Anita never gets older

Re: Yes!

[mariadeangeles.livejournal.com]

Thats bizarre because its been more than ten years since Guilty Pleasures came out. Anita needs to age or die.

Re: Yes!

[maedren.livejournal.com]

BUT because of all her speshul powers given to her by the triumvirates and whatever other nonsense isn't Anita immortal by now? I was under the impression that she was.

So.... She'll. Never. Age. We'll be stuck with this Anita forever. *cries*

Wait a minute. *epiphany* It makes so much sense now! Her "friends" are all being driven away by Anita antics because... they are growing out of the Anita stage and into 30 somethings. They're all realizing how UNFUN that stage is. Brilliant!

Er... anyone else follow that? Or was that a personal epiphany?

THIS.

[kestryweaver.livejournal.com]

I must say I find this quite refreshing. :) I've never posted on this community before but this entry sang to me.

Though i confess I am a wonder woman fan (bows head in shame--sorry guys) everything else written here I agree with. There are way too many "strong female characters" out there who's creator's idea of a "strong woman" translates to "spiteful bitch". Chicks who will have random sex for the sake of... well, I actually have no idea, chicks who will randomly just kill stuff because it makes them look edgy, with no emotional repercussions, chicks who go beyond sticking up for themselves to just being NAASTY to everybody, chicks who don't have a nice, kindly bone in their body, because that would make them "soft", chicks who march around proclaiming BAAAWWWWW I'M A STRONG WOMAN DON'T TRY TO KEEP ME DOWN!!!! when *nobody* is trying to keep them down.

What happened to characters being good role models? I'm not looking for perfect Mary Sues, but just characters that are genuine good people. People who have normal flaws but, in times of crises, at least TRY to make the right decisions with thoughts about the consequences.

Maybe I'm not making my point here very well... I dunno... but either way this Anti-Hero blurb on here really made me go, THANK YOU! because it's how I've been feeling for ages XD

Re: THIS.

[amosby.livejournal.com]

Thanks a bunch! This is the first thing I posted here and I wanted to make sure I didn't just come in here and rant like a loon hahaha