(no subject)

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

Okay, another round of "RF asks a question of the entire comm about the AB series"! I just have a lot of thoughts and I really enjoy hearing those of y'all. This time around...what questions do you have about the ABverse? I don't mean stuff like "why do previously good characters turn into pod-people around Anita now" or "why are the villains so weak-ass now" or anything else that can be answered just by LKH being a hack and Anita being her Mary Sue. More like, well...I guess I'll use my own question as an example.

What happened to the lamia race? Why and how are they now extinct, when they're immortal and can only be killed, not die by natural causes, and are clearly very, very hard to kill? And why, even if they are extinct, is there such mystery around them to the point it doesn't seem as though anyone even knew how they reproduced until Anita witnessed Melanie's transformed snakemen.

My theory? It wasn't humans that wiped them out, and it wasn't recent. It was done a long, long time ago, hence no reliable records of their biology, and it was done by other supernaturals in fear of the lamias' power. Maybe those who could call snakes kept a few as Animal Servants like the Harlequin with the golden tigers, but they were ultimately too strong and no vampire save for one on the Council (Mr. Oliver) could control them and so all but his (Melanie) had to be destroyed lest they turn on the vampires (or, perhaps, when they turned on the vampires!)

Which would mesh in a fuck ton of interesting ways with my idea that the creation/evolution of weresnakes came not just from Marmee Noir as with the mammalian therianthropes, but involved the lamias and/or nagas somehow as well.


Also, this has nothing to do with the topic, but it just occurred to me and I didn't think it was quite "big" enough an observation for its own post:

We've discussed how, if Anita was a man and all her boytoys were girls, she'd immediately be called out by readers (besides us) on being the awful domestic abuser (and blatant misogynist) that she is. What's more though, I also think Antonio (as I like to call male!Anita, which has given rise to a parody character in my head) would also be called out by readers as being a horrible racist stereotype. Think about it---the overly-macho, sexist, womanizing Hispanic male caricature is exactly what she'd be. Add in the 'hot' temper (associated with Hispanic people of both sexes) and continuously going after white women (which all Anita's boyfriends would now be) only to use, rape, and abuse them, and also being lazy (slacking off work--when was the last time she raised a zombie, eh?) and holy shit, Antonio is a whopping insult to Mexicans everywhere, probably the entire Latin American diaspora.

I don't think LKH intended for Anita to be a bundle of stereotypes about Mexican men disguised with tits, since I don't think she actually thinks of Anita as being bi-racial at all most of the time UNTIL she wants her to angst about it (since LKH herself is white and can't fathom any real difference between her fantasy-self-insert and her, in m opinion) but it sure is a hell of an ironic coincidence, given how much Anita desperately wants to be the biggest toughest manliest man in the room at all times. Seems like the result of if she really was wouldn't be QUITE what LKH was going for.

Comments

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

I now desperately want to write Antonio his own telenovella.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

What's really sad is that, as awful as he'd be, he'd still likely be LESS annoying than Anita because he probably wouldn't have all the same angst as Anita over having sex and needing reassurance that she's a Good Girl and Not A Slut, etc. Which of course is symptomatic of the same idea LKH is *trying* (and failing) to fight--that it's ok for men to have lots of lovers/sex but not women--but is still really freaking irritating at this point. Plus he couldn't blame nigh-every issue someone has with his behavior on it just being because he's a petite attractive busty woman.

[kyoko-minamino.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Anita's rampant penis envy is a large source of what makes her so intolerable. Switching her gender would at least get rid of one annoying character trait.

[daphne-gateau.livejournal.com]

haha, you hit on the first aspect of the ABverse that I had trouble reconciling -- how lamias could be 'truly' immortal and... also.... extinct. Except, then, they weren't extinct because there was awesome Melanie.... and Anita/Jean-Claude don't allow for the idea that there could be other 'oopsie' lamias out there that forgot to get extinct with themselves.

At one time I had many questions about the wolves. Originally, I thought they had an interesting 'world' and organizational set up. I liked there were reporters and characters that weren't Alpha but could align themselves in the pack to get protection. Early on I still believed that that could make for interesting personal relationships and drama playing out in the pack while Richard/Anita would have gotten on to solving crimes and what not. What ever happened to all the interesting pack members? The nurse, for instance. When I stopped reading the series the shifters (especially the rats!) were basically all reduced to being nameless 'security'. That was sad.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

HELL YES MELANIE. So yeah, if they're 'truly' immortal but also extinct, I figure that means they must be immortal like vampires are--can't get sick or old, but can be killed. Or were they specified as being 'truly' immortal as in un-killable and I just forgot? Because then I can't even figure it out unless they were all (except Melanie) somehow bound in eternal hibernation like Marmee Noir or something similar that, though they would technically be left alive, would make the species functionally gone thus leading to the belief they were extinct.

There was a nurse wereleopard (Cherry), surgeon werewolf (Marcus), and doctor wererat (Lilian) but I don't recall a nurse wolf? Either way, yes, it totally sucks how now the only shifter characters that get any screentime are the ones that are Anita's lovers and/or are male strippers, with the ones who aren't only turning up occasionally for, as you said, security or similar unappreciated barely-mentioned support/aid for Anita's people. There indeed was a lot of potential but, as with the series on the whole, it got wasted.

[jya-bd-cp-ttgb.livejournal.com]

Marcus got eaten, which is what drove AB into JCs deep blue eyes and frosty arms. Irving was a reporter wolf who vanished. Dead Dave the cop with the bar and his human Luthor poofed.

[lady-fellshot.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to posit that the lamias are not in fact extinct, they just got far better at escaping detection and participate in a large super-secret organization to keep themselves and others that the vampire council of doom would happily exterminate safe. Melanie would of course be this shadow organization's eyes near the council.

I rather like the super secret organization idea since it can be expanded to include anyone who opposes the council's methods and be the revolutionary counter to the sadist vampire league. Because they are putting everyone else's food source at risk by being far too obvious. XD

[kyoko-minamino.livejournal.com]

I'm happy you brought up the gender flip issue. I'm pleased that there are thousands of fans who call LKH and Anita out on their bullshit, but I think there should be more attention drawn to it and that's why the gender issue is such a big deal. If Anita was indeed Antonio (lol, nice, I love it), the series would probably be banned from libraries. But since she's a girl, less attention is paid to the blatantly horrible things she subjects her "sweeties" to on a daily basis because we still live in a male-oriented society.

Granted, I personally don't think Anita is a Mexican stereotype just because she's so whitebread. I've met plenty of Hispanic/Mexican women and they exhibit many qualities that Anita does not.

First of all, family is extremely important to them. Anita doesn't give a shit about her father or anyone else in her step-family. She never mentions them or shows any concern towards them so that's right out the window.

Second of all, many Hispanic women love to cook--not just traditional dishes from their culture, either. They just enjoy cooking in general. Anita doesn't touch a thing in her kitchen except for the coffeemaker because it's part of her macho man image.

Third of all, many Hispanic women who are bilingual happily speak Spanglish in their own home and with their loved ones. That is the one thing that has always ticked me off about Anita. She'll bring up the fact that her mother was Mexican at the drop of a hat but she exhibits absolutely nothing from the Mexican culture at any time in the novels. She doesn't speak Spanish and she doesn't care about anything related to that side of her family history. I can't stand that. I find cultural influences to be incredibly endearing parts of a character's backstory and she just ignores it all.

That's why I don't consider Anita to be a Mexican stereotype, short temper aside. I think she's a tomboy stereotype and a slut stereotype rolled into one awful package. But again, just my take on it.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

...well, the idea was that Antonio would be a Hispanic male stereotype, not female. As it is, no, Anita is not a stereotype of a Hispanic woman, not even 'spicy sexy Latina' one.

[kyoko-minamino.livejournal.com]

Well, I was just discussing a thought I had. In terms of male stereotyping, I could see a similar argument but I can't comment on much since I've only had one or two male Hispanic friends so I don't know enough to judge whether
"Antonio" would be one. Unless I'm going off stuff I see on TV like George Lopez.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definitely didn't mean to imply that most Hispanic men *are* like Antonio, but that the very racist *idea* that they all are is one that I've encountered. Also, btw, I've gotten to Part 10 of Snark Theatre, enjoying it muchely!

Completely sad fact: I've got a sex-swap for almost very AB character--Jeanne-Claire for Jean Claude, Ashley for Asher, Rachel for Richard, Jocelyn for Jason, Melanthios for Melanie, Meng Dao for Meng Die, Natalie for Nathaniel, Meryl for Merle, Beau Morte for Belle Morte, Papa Noir for Marmee Noir, and so on. I originally planned to DO something with them, but it's not working out--parody doesn't work because I seriously can't make rape and abusive relationships funny, and rewriting the series sex-swapped to show how WRONG it is would just be too short, since it'd be obvious pretty fast.

[kyoko-minamino.livejournal.com]

I get what you're saying, don't worry. And thanks for watching Snark Theater, I'm glad you like it.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing the end result. Hopefully, it'll be eye opening for some people who aren't in the know. I'd be happy to pass it on if you ever write it and post it somewhere.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

Oh okay, good, I was worried for a second XD I was like 'oh god no does it sound like I believe that?!'

Thank you! If I ever do (which is, alas, unlikely--I'm much better at having ideas than implementing them ;A;) I will let you know!

[the-mome-wrath.livejournal.com]

Once thing I've wondered since Burnt Offerings was why don't more vampires have butterflies as their creature to call? I mean that was awesome. Especially if they were the vampire butterflies that sit on your chest and steal your breath. Seriously, BUTTERFLIES.

I also always wondered why the police never adapted to the presence of the supernatural. If vampires can be safely contained in a cross wrapped coffin, why don't the police use that to their advantage when holding a vampire? Or if the compulsion in the gaze is a problem when taking them in, why don't they make them wear dark goggles or put a bag over their head or something? They could even use zombies to move them. No chance of compulsion there. And as for werecreatures, why don't the police carry tranquilizer darts and have reinforced cells to hold them? I read another series that did that for werecreatures and it made me wonder why Anita's world didn't have that since the supernatural was supposed to be so well known and open. It makes a whole lot more sense to equip the regular police to deal with what they presumably have to deal with fairly often than to rely on a small widely spread group of individuals who only take out super powerful super dangerous ones of the vampires/weres.

Also, why do the police tolerate the Master of the City? JC is essentially a mob boss. He and Anita kill vampires in and were creatures in every book. Why don't they put a wire on someone and send them into the Circus and have them argue with Anita? I'm sure they could get her to admit to murdering half a dozen people in the manliest man in the room contest.

[viridian5.livejournal.com]

It makes a whole lot more sense to equip the regular police to deal with what they presumably have to deal with fairly often than to rely on a small widely spread group of individuals who only take out super powerful super dangerous ones of the vampires/weres.

Because then Anita wouldn't be super special and able to work--when she does work--on her own terms.


I'd love for Anita and her various monsters to get called on the many crimes they're doing all the time. As citizens, they should be held accountable to some kind of law.

[the-mome-wrath.livejournal.com]

I think it has more to do with making Anita super special. You could still write a book with a protagonist with unique abilities with the backup of competent regular people. Or even just have mention of the police being equipped to deal with normal crimes and having someone being called in for the things that are too big or they lack the expertise to deal with. For example if the police normally deals with trolls (whatever happened to trolls anyway?) and then suddenly has to deal with werejaguars, I can see them calling someone like Anita in.

At this point it doesn't seem like Anita and her entourage are trying to hide their crimes anymore. If Dolph really wanted to I think he could get her brought in. It'd even fit with his personality transplant.

[rodentfanatic.livejournal.com]

I think I recall vampires in some kind of folklore (don't remember from where, though) could in fact take on the form of butterflies, which is probably connected to the Greek belief that butterflies were the souls of the dead. I do wonder, is there any limit to the creatures that they can call? They always seem to either be animals that have a corresponding werebeast (hyenas, wolves, big cats, rats) or a creatures that are otherwise associated with vampires in mythology (Warrick calling butterflies, Musette able to call bats, Belle Morte calling domestic cats) but is that deliberate on LKH's part or is it just coincidence/her not seeing the point in being able to call anything that isn't obviously big'n'powerful or pretty?

[the-mome-wrath.livejournal.com]

I think it's her not seeing the point in anything that isn't powerful and pretty, though a were jakalope would be hilarious. They're supposed to be ferocious after all.

I think the animals to call extending to the weres was really more of a way for her to power up the vampires. Even before the series jumped off a cliff Anita was beginning to really power up though at the time the excuse was that she was a necromancer and therefore able to absorb vampire powers for whatever reason. So as Anita powered up the bad guys needed to become more powerful and to defeat them Anita had to get stronger and so on. All the new weres pop up associated with a vampire after that. Except for the wereswans, but for the most part they just seem to exist and provide powerups as needed for Anita.

[plastraa.livejournal.com]

It does seem odd that since Vampires were granted legal status that they wouldn't have some sort of due process or plans in place other than sending Anita after them...I wish this aspect had been explored more.

Or even have an actual squad of supernaturals to handle supernatural cases, legally. Seems to me supernaturals do have ways to 'hold' other supernaturals for some sort of trial, if the humans aren't able to do so.

The 'spook' squad could act as liaison between the supernaturals and humans or something. Then if an execution was really called for, after some sort of trial even of their peers (other supernaturals) then an executioner could be sent out.

It does seem odd that the Master of the City would still be able to have the same sort of power in America as the countries where Vampires aren't considered legal citizens, and why Jean Claude and Anita can carry on with their hijinks with no blow back from any government agency is very odd to me.

[plastraa.livejournal.com]

In the thread a couple weeks ago about what you would write about if you wrote in the ab verse. I would want to write about Melanie (lamia) I found myself fascinated with her and the whole 'truly' immortal and yet extinct thing...and also more of her back story. AND why if she is so powerful and immortal she would really agree to stay at the circus. I don't think she would really be afraid of Anita's magical sex powers if she really wanted to leave. Just a lot of questions about her. A lot.

I too miss the other weres. I loved the wererats, and felt irritated when they were relegated to bodyguard/feeding Anita status. They seemed like they had their own thing going on, and then they were just there to add more power-ups to Anita and crew.

There is obviously so much more, and I wish I hated the universe as much as I hate the direction the story has taken, but...alas.

[bookpire.livejournal.com]

Politics

Seriously how could we not wonder how the world functions when you have supernatural people walking around?

Like zombies, I seriously think if people could come back from the dead, even as rotten corpses there would be alot more people requesting it, considering. So it would either have to be made illegal like ABverse kinda (sept its not as well what? ) or place laws so the idea is less appealing. Like once you techically die you lose all rights to what you gained in life. It would also make the idea of becoming a vampire less appealing if you lose everything after becoming one. That way it's kind of a sad and unfair idea if said death and coming back wasn't your choice but at least it would be an unfair law that made sense since it would avoid all the messy political problems that come with having someone come back. e.g and not just be strawman racism.

And don't get me started on the wasted idea of vampires living in a human governed world. There would be so many interesting rules about them, like would a forced biting and 'rolling' be classed as sexual assault? Are there different were/vampire political parties? Do some were/vampires want to still be classed as human or be seen as another race completely?