Blogflog - Sucker Punch Spoiler Thread Replies

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Link: Sucker Punch Spoiler Thread Replies
Disclaimer: This blog entry is verbatim, as originally posted on LKH's blog. Copyright belongs to Ma Petite Enterprises.

Spoiler alert, I am about to spoil most of the plot of Sucker Punch in the comments below. If you have not read the book please don’t read them. I am responding to the spoiler thread, but my reply got too long for Facebook and Instagram. Thanks again to all of you that responded with such enthusiasm and so many comments that I couldn’t respond to them all, so here are some of the highlights that I gleaned from your discussion.

Is this the last Anita book? Of course not. This rumor seems to circulate after every book, though I’m not sure why, so let me reassure everyone there will be many more books to come.

Also, to the people that have started saying the last book will be the big wedding between Anita and Jean-Claude: absolutely not. Neither I, Anita, or any of the people she loves believe in happily-ever-after being the end of the story. Happily-ever-after is the beginning of true love, not the end. And for some of you speculating that Olaf would interrupt the wedding with Jean-Claude, why would he do that? He doesn’t want to marry Anita, just have something similar with her that he thinks Edward has with her, more like a sword mate in the ancient tradition. Also, if anyone thinks that Anita marrying Jean-Claude is suddenly going to make them both monogamous, so Olaf would have lost his chance to bed Anita, um no. Anita and Jean-Claude are both polyamorous, that’s not going to change.

Olaf – I really thought we were going to get to kill him off in the last book, Serpentine, but that part of the plot never materialized, so he got another book, but I always think every book is his last. He surprised, both Anita and me in this one. Shocked Edward, too, which isn’t that easy to do. At this time I’m not planning on ever having Anita and he have sex, but I’ve had bet good money that Anita would not have kissed him voluntarily ever again, so I’ve taken my bets off this table. I agree with those that think that Olaf would kill her before he’d become her Bride. I do think that this weird new dimension of character growth between Anita and Olaf will continue at least long enough for him to come to St. Louis is try to figure out how the other people in Anita’s life work. Olaf is intelligent, except emotionally, so I can see him wanting to come and ask questions of the other men and maybe women in her life. I’d like to see his lion form before he dies. I’d sort of like Olaf to go with Anita and Edward on Peter’s first hunt, along with Bernardo.

The kiss – A lot of you were horrified, or intrigued, or just confused by the fact that Anita and Olaf actually shared a kiss. I tried to write that scene differently several times, but the book stalled and would not go like a car that had run out of gas. I’ve learned that when that happens it means that the characters, the plot, my muse have decided that this scene needs to be in the book. Sometimes I write the scene and then delete it later, but most of the time the muse is right and the scene stays. Yes, it bothered both me and Anita, too.

Edward testing inconclusive for Therianthropy. Sorry, I’m not going to answer any of your questions, you’ll just have to see how it plays out. It’s too big a potential plot twist to give it all away here. Sorry, not sorry. I will say I didn’t see it coming and wrote it out, then put it back twice. I know what it means and where we’re going with it.

I’ll agree with everyone who liked seeing Nicky talk to Olaf. It was fun. Glad so many of you enjoyed the poly discussion near the end with the bigger cast. I enjoyed writing the scenes as much as you enjoyed reading it.

A few of you said that Anita was weak and not bad ass for calling in Edward for help with Olaf. First, it is not a sign of weakness to ask for help when you need/want it. Second, if Anita had just shot Olaf dead early in the book then she’d have been arrested and trying to solve the book’s mystery would have stopped. It would have become a book about Anita having destroyed her life to kill Olaf. If you’ve missed it, Anita is not the most subtle person, if we have to kill Olaf in the future we need Edward with us to ensure that we have a chance of not going to jail or getting executed for it. Anita needed Edward there not just backup and potential protection but for planning how to do the deed and not get caught.

A couple of you said the mystery was too easy to solve and too obvious, because you solved it in the first half of the book. Well, good for you, because you were ahead of me. I honestly originally had Leduc down as the murderer. It was one reason that I made Hanuman, Michigan a fictional town, because if the cops are the bad guys then I will not intentionally besmirch a real police force. Turns out he wasn’t it, but good on the handful of you that say you saw through my plot and solved it before I even knew it was Jocelyn. I thought Sheriff Leduc and Deputy Rico were both in on it, as it turned out Rico was still a bad guy, but his partner in crime changed completely. Jocelyn was originally supposed to be a red herring.

A few more of you complained on how much dialogue and soul searching Anita does in the book. Anita overthinks things, because I overthink things. Also, every serious relationship I’ve ever been in has required a great deal of communication in real life, in fact the fictional discussions aren’t nearly as complicated and long as some real life poly talks. It’s one of the serious downsides to my chosen sexual orientation. Yes, it’s trying, but totally worth it when it works.

Some of you are thrilled that there was no sex and all mystery. Others of you missed the sex and loved the mystery. A few of you missed Jean-Claude, Micah, Nathaniel and the others, and would have chucked the mystery to see more poly couple time. Still others of you were happy not to have them on stage this book. Some of you were cafeteria style and picked a little from several choices above. As a writer and as a person you cannot please everyone, so in the end please yourself, or let the book be what the book wants to be, because I was not happy with the ending.

I’d originally planned to save Bobby, and then we got to the end – twice. I tried to save him a different way and the book stopped dead in it’s tracks. I cried, if it’s any comfort. But I finally realized that this book wasn’t just about the injustice of the execution system, but about why the execution warrants exist in the first place. Bobby proved just how dangerous he was at the end.

A few of you thought that Jocelyn enraged Bobby by accusing Rico of raping her, no. Bobby smelled them on each other and then she told him the truth about their affair and the murder and framing him. The plan was for Rico to shoot Bobby trying to bend the bars and escape after Jocelyn enraged him up, but Rico got too close and Bobby decided he wanted to kill Rico more than he wanted to escape. There’s a reason you’re not allowed to stand within paw reach of the cages at the zoo.

Comments

[openidwouldwork]

Olaf? Olaf?!?ß1ß1ß??? WTF?

[thegrandhighmarysue]

First time poster here, sorry if it's long and rambly. I lurk here all the time. I wrote a big long review for the audiobook version of Sucker Punch and some of the points might be the same, but I think they're worth mentioning.

LKH is cutting off her nose to spite her face. Sucker Punch reads like one big, long, poorly plotted response to criticism. No sex? Check. Proper terminology, lycanthrope vs. therianthrope? Check. An attempt at mystery? Check.

Except, there's still roughly the same amount of plot that's in a regular Anita Blake book, there's tedious, repetitious conversation to fill the space normally reserved for tedius, repetitious sex scenes. Honestly? I'd rather have the sex. It's boring and I can skim it, but the conversations? Those really effing bother me. The constant refrain of "What do you mean?" or "Do you mean X?" drives home the fact that the author thinks her readers are stupid and must be told everything four times.

Do traditionally published writers get paid by the word? Because this, like many of the other books, is padded all to hell. Whittle it down to 60-80k and you've got a relatively tight (if not easily solvable) whodunit. I ghostwrite for content mills and have word limits. I either have to trim or pad A LOT. Does it work that way in traditional publishing? Is there a word count you're expected to meet? Moving on...

Her grudging use of therianthropy is unpleasant to read. It feels petulant, like she's just thrown her hands up and said "FINE!" But she has to make absolutely sure that we know she hates us for it and is still going to use the incorrect terminology most of the time. (Except for when it makes Anita seem progressive to use it.)

Why the hell won't she end it at the wedding? That's a logical end point. If she needs to, just drag the limp carcass of the series to book thirty and call it a day. The plots tend to be rehashed, her heart clearly isn't in it, and she can clearly ride on her name. Start a new series. I think she's terrified she can't make another series work and has to milk the cash cow long past it's prime.

Olaf's subplot....do not want. No, no, no, stop now. Drop the serial killer dick and back away, Hamilton.

"A few of you said that Anita was weak and not bad ass for calling in Edward for help with Olaf. First, it is not a sign of weakness to ask for help when you need/want it."

Agreed. And I'd be fine with that sentiment if it were anyone but Anita/LKH saying it. Unfortunately, it never bears out in the plots of these books. If you ask for help, can't hack it, won't cater to Anita's whims, you are a weakling and promplty cut out of her life.

"Edward testing inconclusive for Therianthropy. Sorry, I’m not going to answer any of your questions, you’ll just have to see how it plays out. It’s too big a potential plot twist to give it all away here. Sorry, not sorry. I will say I didn’t see it coming and wrote it out, then put it back twice. I know what it means and where we’re going with it."

I'm expecting him to join the harem thusly. Since Anita is now into women Donna and Peter could join up too. Fun for the whole family.


"A couple of you said the mystery was too easy to solve and too obvious, because you solved it in the first half of the book. Well, good for you, because you were ahead of me. I honestly originally had Leduc down as the murderer. It was one reason that I made Hanuman, Michigan a fictional town, because if the cops are the bad guys then I will not intentionally besmirch a real police force. Turns out he wasn’t it, but good on the handful of you that say you saw through my plot and solved it before I even knew it was Jocelyn. I thought Sheriff Leduc and Deputy Rico were both in on it, as it turned out Rico was still a bad guy, but his partner in crime changed completely. Jocelyn was originally supposed to be a red herring."

All of this just...? I'm a huge plotter so I don't really understand people who can pants their books. But really she should have a general idea! She needs a plot outline. A plot generator. A bullet point list, something! At least know who your suspects are! I'd just love to make Hamilton write a cozy mystery. It needs to have a tight plot, interesting, recurring characters, unique settings, and cannot include sex or very foul language. They are largely female-centric. The lead has to be likeable and not get in pissing contests. All the things that Hamilton can't stand and that she reaches to in order to fill page count when ideas are scarce.

"A few more of you complained on how much dialogue and soul searching Anita does in the book. Anita overthinks things, because I overthink things. Also, every serious relationship I’ve ever been in has required a great deal of communication in real life, in fact the fictional discussions aren’t nearly as complicated and long as some real life poly talks. It’s one of the serious downsides to my chosen sexual orientation. Yes, it’s trying, but totally worth it when it works."

Overthinking would be agnozing over her actions. She does very little. It drags because she doesn't do anything to help Newman, one of the few things that's coming up. She's constantly explaining the warrant system, the four horsemen nickname, etc. It's just hammering things in, not overthinking them. The poly talks aren't interesting because we've seen them before. And we really shouldn't be having them with Olaf. Serial raping/killing, creepazoid Olaf! She should kill him. She won't, because he's got to be reformed by Anita. Because of course he does.

"As a writer and as a person you cannot please everyone, so in the end please yourself, or let the book be what the book wants to be, because I was not happy with the ending."

No you can't please everyone. But this book is unlikely to do well with either camp. No serious plot issues are being addressed, characters killed off, or any character evolution as far as Anita is concerned. There's no couple, sex, interpersonal, poly, BDSM stuff for the fans who dig that. And if you're not happy with the ending, change it. You are the author, you get to write the damn thing. No one forcing you to write the way you do.

"I’d originally planned to save Bobby, and then we got to the end – twice. I tried to save him a different way and the book stopped dead in it’s tracks. I cried, if it’s any comfort. But I finally realized that this book wasn’t just about the injustice of the execution system, but about why the execution warrants exist in the first place. Bobby proved just how dangerous he was at the end."

If he'd lived he'd have been in her harem, it pretty much says in the text, since her beast responded to him. No, it does not comfort me that Halmiton cried over a bit character who had no depth. You know what would have been poignant? If he had been completely innocent, non-violent, and Anita had to kill him anyway. Then she'd face a hard choice. Go with a corrupt justice system and kill someone she knows is innocent or turn in her badge. Either way, that'd mark a change in Anita. Which does she value more, the sanctity of life or her badge? We all know the answer, of course. But damn, that would have actually been a good plot point. If she did turn in her badge, what then? Everything changes. Awesome. Good. Do it!

The thing about vampires and weres being so uberviolent worked in the beginning to give her a reason to kill them. Very Buffy. Endless fodder for the heroine to prove her badassery. But if they're humanized? Show human ones. Not just Anita's harem. Vampires or weres she has to kill will always turn out to be evil so we don't have to bother with pesky shades of gray or slip Anita off her moral Shetland Pony. Show us some damn shades of gray already!

She won't. Things are and will always be static in the Anitaverse. Sigh. I really hope she's lying about not going on for "many books to come."

Sorry for the lengthy ramble.

[scarimonious]

Do not apologise! Also welcome! it's nice to see a new face and really appreciate you taking the time to leave such a detailed comment.

This book has been on my TBR pile because I'm allowing myself this one act of masochism during a pandemic so it's good to see just exactly what I'm in for with this mess.

I died laughing at moral Shetland Pony omg XD

[thegrandhighmarysue]

Well Sucker Punch was so frustrating because it felt a litle like earlier Anita Blake books. Which I still find flawed but might not have if I hadn't come about the way I did. I actually came across LKH through Merry Gentry. My hometown library only had a Stroke of Midnight, which I listened to at my very conservative grandmother's house. Scandalous. XD I was shocked because I was 14/15 and it was my first erotica. I tried to read more but the only audiobooks were Antia Blake, so I tried them. I tried Cerulean Sins because the cover looked nicest. So. Freaking. Boring. I ended up encountering sporkings through Das_Sporking and their Twighlight and Fifty Shades. I went looking to see if there were for any Anita Blake sporkings and viola!

I've read Dottie's Reviews, A_Sporking_Rat and duamuteffe. Even when I went back to read the old stuff I could see what was in store, which probably ruins them for me. The starter kit for all this awful was there but after NiC or maybe before (Can I just say I hate the treatment of Donna in OB?) someone doused the series potential in kerosine, threw it in a dumpster, and struck a match.

Sucker Punch could have been meh to okay if she hadn't included Olaf. Everything ground to a stop mystery-wise when he arrived. Like I said in my audiobook review, if this had transformed into a Most Dangerous Game Scenario it would have redeemed the whole book. (omg I typed 'came' at first. Fruedian slip...) Obviously that isn't going to happen because writing anything but easily solvable mysteries and confronations is apparently too hard these days.

Hope it doesn't sound to shill-y but you and the others inspired me to write fic. I tried to take all the comments (mostly from Sporking Rat's sporks) and make something of them. It won't be perfect. I'm a full time ghost and I have a two year old, I run on minimal sleep, but I'm trying. I think I used some of your comments on how animating firms could run in real life in Ch 12. I'm trying to do a lot of worldbuilding in them. It's Iniquity by Redgeandlilly if you're interested.

Shameless shill over. XD Thank you all so much for tackling these books and trying to hold the author to account. I struggle with the whole "you're not traditionally published so you don't get a say thing." Sometimes that gets to me. Then I feel like "great authors have gone unpublished, really fantastic ones can and have self-published, and just being a big name doesn't make you talented."

My husband (who is my husband) and I are both aspiring writers. We want that for ourselves someday. So it's insulting on just a fundamental level to have an author who lazily avoids conflict, gives the character what they want every single book, and never progresses the series forward. I know not everyone on this comm likes Harry Dresden (I do but I recognize its flaws) but I give Jim credit. He kicks the shit out of Harry every damn book. Conflict is the lifeblood of a novel. Suck that out, you're looking at a dry husk of a book.

[scarimonious]

I know judging from the blurb Sucker Punch seems like a retread of Blue Moon but without any stakes, and going by what you've said it seems like it's suffering from the same issues that the last...many, many books have had with endless redundant conversations. And it seems pretty clear that LKH doesn't enjoy writing Anita (or Merry) for that matter so why not give them a break or end things, take a break, and then start fresh?

Oh god I know that feeling well; it's so depressing to find books like this all over the place specially when you know people who have amazing stories that are completely overlooked. I hope you and your husband just keep on writing and refinining your craft and come up with some awesome tales!

[thegrandhighmarysue]

I haven't read Blue Moon all the way through because I tend to rage quit. The rape apologism and whatnot in these books is appalling. I've never been assaulted but I know people who have.

I'm going through the series with a fine-toothed comb now because I'm seeing what canon I can keep for my fics. It's very contradictory and I'm sure I'll make things up wholesale (for example I've actually named Anita's mother, father, college fiance, and given her Grandma Flores a first name.)

I agree, it's a retread of Blue Moon somewhat. The thing that really gets me is that she ends up killing Bobby in the end. It's like Hamilton realized, crap, there hasn't been any action, must shoehorn a death in there somewhere. It's this part that really gets me, though:

"But I finally realized that this book wasn’t just about the injustice of the execution system, but about why the execution warrants exist in the first place. Bobby proved just how dangerous he was at the end."

He was completely non-violent until the end. She realized she'd set up a moral quandry and instead of having her main character explore the ramifications of that, she bent the character to suit the needs of the status quo. That is not a good thing. As much as she claims to be boundary-pushing and edgy, she can't bring herself to actually shake things up. She can't let Anita fuck up, be wrong, make hard choices, etc. She needs to be praised every second of every day. That doesn't make me think strong character. It makes me think the author is floundering in insecurity and retreating into her escapist fantasy.

Which would be fine if it was for her own enjoyment. But it's not. It's a commercial product open for critique. Once you release it to the public it becomes theirs as well. Do authors have to kowtow to their fanbase's every whim? No. I know lots of people hated it when the HarryxHermione ship didn't come to pass. But JK had a plan and even if I didn't like the last book, it was still leagues better than anything LKH has put out recently. You have to treat your book as what it is. A product. This is your business, your money maker. You can't piss off your fans by constantly talking down to them or telling them they're just jealous haters when they call you on your BS.

On my own writing, I'm currently working on an urban fantasy. I'm just gritting my teeth though, because mine has to deal with heaven/hell etc. I know it'll probably be nothing like Hamilton's new Samuel Havelock series, but I know if she publishes it and I come out after her she'll claim credit for "inspiring me." I won't go into it too much here because I know someone in Hamilton's camp is reading lashouts or sporks. If you want to know more you could PM me. I'll just say my character is an out lesbian in a high-power position in a heaven/hell dichotomy. Human, not an angel or anything.

The really galling thing is that she claims credit for the entire genre, not recognizing things were trending that way and she was just in the first wave. I finally put my finger on what bothered me about it. As someone who came out after her I'm expected to take a knee and pay fealty to her like a goddess or something. Um, no. If I ever get published it'll be because I worked hard and I earned it, nothing to do with her. Grr. She just makes me angry. If I ever do run in the same circles, I hope I don't meet her. I've got a terrible poker face.

[scarimonious]

I absolutely agree with your assessments about the author's insecurity. It just oozes off the page. And best of luck combing through the books. I know I started an in-depth one a while back and I still have all the bits of paper bookmarking Circus of the Damned that I needed to have talking points on. It is not pretty.

I really like the premise of your work!

NGL I'm glad I live on the other side of the world because there is a zero chance that I will ever be anywhere near LKH having an event for similar reasons.

[thegrandhighmarysue]

I live in the same state as LKH, just in North Missouri, closer to Iowa. (I'm northwest, I think? I'm awful with directions.) So if I ever did make it big, it's pretty much a certainty we'd cross paths.

[suzycat]

I do find it odd - and I know writers who I like who do the same thing - that authors have this idea of the characters as existing outside themselves, dictating the story.

[thegrandhighmarysue]

I mean I get that a little. I don't do it, so it seems a little weird to me, but I know there are a lot of different ways to approach writing. I'm a plotter, I like to know as much as possible before going in. The characters come to life on the page, like color filling in an outline. They don't really dictate the story to me. I may realize, this action I planned doesn't work with how they've been characterized and change things but they don't order me to do anything. To bastardize a Producers quote, "You are the character, I am the author, I outrank you!"

With LKH what bugs me is the fact that her ways is "superior" to anyone else's way. She may pay lip service to other writers doing things differently, but its clear that she has disdain for anyone who doesn't do it the way she'd do it. I.e. spurting blood like a scene in Kill Bill until her keyboard is non-functional. Having an emotional distance from my characters doesn't make me a shallow or lesser author. It means I'm not going to get identity confusion and I can do the things that need to be done to advance the story.

And the way she takes jabs at other authors...ugh. Professional author my ass...