Thank you for mentioning Holly Lisle

[britpoptarts.livejournal.com]

Today I'd like to give some acknowledgement and thanks to members of lkh_lashouts that recommended that disenchanted Laurell K Hamilton readers should try reading books by Holly Lisle. I can't say I was ever a huge fan of LKH but in her earlier books (at least in the Anita Blake: Vampire Humper series), she had laid some good groundwork by creating an alternate universe populated by fantastic mythological creatures and laws and rules, albeit one that had to be created in the mid-1980s and which apparently remains stuck there to a great degree. I found out that the curious reader can tell which books might be worth an hour or so of your free time by looking for those where she thanks and acknowledges a writer's circle / beta readers. Books that lack this nod to a circle of apprently helpful peers are, in a word, self-indulgent. (Read: excrement.) For a comparison, note the change in Anne Rice's books after she, too, decided she did not need an editor or peer reviewer.

In fact, I think I'm here mostly because I am ANGRY that LKH squandered her universe and her characters the way she has, and that she apparently no longer bothers to proofread or accept criticism and suggestions from peers OR fans. It's almost like she died and a much less-talented hack who getsd of on vamp porn took over and started using her fame and fan base to sell crap. I am REALLY angry. I am also saddened, because she had the opportunity to leave a written legacy of some worth and creativity, and the tipping point where new, bad work far outweighs old, passably fascinating work has long since come and gone. In the past few years, drawn as if by a roadside accident, I have checked some of her newer books out of the library, mostly to see if it could possibly get any worse. Let's just say that I fantasized calling her publisher and offering my services as a proofreader, as I couldn't believe they actually had one oif they'd let these books go out as is. I was underemployed at the time, which made that seem like a good idea. Upon further reflection, I realized that I would hate my job and hate myself for taking it if I did, in fact, have to wade through one of her UNproofread books. Can you imagine?! Gawd!

I read books 1-3 of the Lisle's World Gates series (and there may only BE three, but it does not say "trilogy") and Talyn yesterday and today. As for my reading habits, well, I read almost everything, and fantasy novels more often disappoint me than not, so I can't say it is a genre I love unreservedly. There are few Terry Pratchetts / Neil Gaimans and many Laurell K Hamiltons in the genre.

Lisle creates logically consistent worlds and sympathetic characters. Even the "bad guys" have depth, or are permitted to seem positive at first. Some bad guys have the chance to be redeemed. Some "good guys" have conflicted morality. Her writing style is tight and clean and engaging. Her dialogue, even when using an invented vocabulary or language, is crisp and exemplifies "show, not tell". Characters have the opportunity to grow, make mistakes, die (albeit not always permanently), make sacrifices, be noble, and to have a sense of humor. Unlike LKH, whose books have steadily become more unreadably pornographic and unsexy simultaneously as time goes on, and which have had less and less plot, Lisle doesn't use sex scenes to titillate. In fact, I may misremember, but I believe two of the four books I read had none, and one book had one that was tasteful, and the last book had a reason, a plot line, character development, crisis point and so on that made the scenes important to the plot, if not vital. I don't think the character development would have been as neatly done without writing about it.

So, there you go. Author recommendation acknowledged and appreciated.

And: hello, I'm new. I went back through August or September and commented on some old threads, but this, if accepted, is my first bulletin post.

Comments

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

It's clear if you go to her website or google 'Holly Isle +fanfiction'. But she's also showed up on a couple of boards to go back and forth with current and once fanfiction-now professionally published fanfiction writers that she thinks that if you 'steal someone else's idea or universe you should steal it in such a way that it's not recognizeable; change a couple of things, add a twist'. She comes across strongly that anyone who writes fanfiction is a hack who just can't cut the reality of doing something original.

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

She'd say that authorized writers of tie-in novels have established contracts and permissions and they aren't shameless hacks who can't write anything else, they're just writers who need to eat.

I'm quite biased against the woman. I admit it fairly.

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

I think people brought up 'Scarlett' the 'Gone With the Wind' sequel and she might have been puffy about that. I honestly can't remember. It was a loooong thread with another jackwipe (the guy who writes the tie-in novels for Diagnosis Murder) who went on and on about stealing hacks and plagerism and comparing fanfictioners to writing plague. They're all bundled up in my head under 'Idiots Not To Listen To'. So again, huge bias.

Thing is, I can remember feeling like them, when I was a little girl - 10, 11-. I was scared to ever let anyone read my stories and I wondered how people prevented editors from running away with your masterpieces. And it's odd to see adults with the same mindset of 'Someone may come along and write it better or not give me any credit. No. All mine. Don't touch.'

I can respect their right to have their own opinion and especially to want a say about their work. But I'm not that much into respecting the actual decision. Steven Brust and C.J. Cherryh (in her 'Foreigner' series) both write about uber-powerful natives and humans as interlopers in complex societies catered to non-human beings; in both their works feuds can last for decades and generations and assasination is a way of life. And yet? Two completely different universes. And their protaganists are different and complex in their own special ways.

And if that's not the real argument. If the real argument is that they want absolute control over their characters. Then I have to wonder why they sent books out into the world, past editors, copy-editors, publicists etc. And why they let those books be bought by various individuals - since they can't go inside everyone's heads and say 'But this is how character A is meant to be interpreted and understood'

/*gets down of McRanty Soapbox*

Sorry about that.

*de-lurks*

[marumae.livejournal.com]

I am quite biased against her as well, the above OP has every write to love whomever they want as a writer, Lisle however as Maiafay down there I think is quite pretentious. Infatuated with her own marvelous writing skills considering they aren't even that spectacular.