Preternatural creatures weigh in?

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

One of the arguments I have been a part of is how Anitaverse rules have been broken so that Laurell can turn Laurita into the most powerfulest, speshulest necrophiliac necromancer EVAR. One of the most blatant broken rules is that you cannot be a lycanthrope (or therianthrope, for amamelina) and vampire at the same time. Someone countered by pointing out the Mother of All Darkness was both.

Now, I'm completely convinced that Laurell invented the Mother of All Darkness just to be a precedent so she'd have an excuse to make Laurita all-powerful. And I'm ignoring the whole immunity-to-diseases-when-you're-a-human-servant fuck-up. My question is, does anyone remember if a vampire (who would obviously know about Marmée Noire) in a past book ever stated that you cannot be both?

Comments

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Off the top of my head, I don't recall any vampire saying that it's impossible, but I think in Circus of the Damned there was a mention that wereolves can't become vampires. But I don't think there was really anything to say about vampires becoming lycanthropes. Though, you'd think that any vampire that was mauled by a werewolf or wererat and then shifted the next full moon kinda woulda kept it to themselves for later powerplays and whatnots, or maybe curled up and died because they couldn't digest the meat of one of their kills. But that's crazy logic talking, so...just ingore that last part.

Then again, LKH said in Bloody Bones that fairies can't become vampires either and left the whole Xavier thing hanging with, "Well, was he or wasn't he?"

I'm particularly irksome over the, "vampires may or may not be able to have children," thing -- biology aside and going by the rules of the 'verse, I can't quite wrap my head around how A) Padma can have a son (Fernando), because he's like a council honcho guy and even if he had only died during the British occupation of India, I don't think he woulda been privy to the information about raising body temperature to help and IVF wasn't around so...*facepalm* (I'm willing to overlook Fernando being a wererat as something he got infected with later in life rather than him being born a wererat, because it raises too many WTF-ery things in me), and B) how Thea and Samuel in DM had kids, because they're both over one thousand years old and somehow manage to have three healthy kids. I could buy into it if Thea had a sperm donor, but...but...*headasplodes*

[summersdream.livejournal.com]

I think I just blew out a brainfuse...

Vampires being weres would be... really cranky, one would think. Would they just bite something and suck its blood? Would you end up with armies of undead rabbits and deer? And could the vampire use those minions against other vampires? "I will be Master of the City or you will feel the bite of my HELLBUNNIES!"

A)Padma and Fernando's mother obviously had a tryst in Bath? A hotspring spa in Switzerland? Or... India was really hot that summer maybe...? Maybe Fernando was adopted.

B) Fertility drugs. Really, really powerful fertility drugs. Thea's stage name is Maeve Reed. That or she actually got pregnant 900 years ago and sirens have a really, really, really long gestation period. In fact, the boys are triplets but one was premature and one was late.

The easy answer is that Laurell's post-it fell off and/or she is leading up to a big surprise that everything we knew about the universe in the first books is Totally Wrong, and now we shall Learn The Truth..

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I just stick with the theory that she does not keep any notes whatsoever and just plugs in what works for her at the time. Screw conventions of world-building! She's the author, she can do whatever she waaaaants!

Though, I was upset to see that Thea totally stole Melanie's gig by being, "the last one of her kiiiind" -- somewhere in the Circus, Melanie is locked in her room and is throwing bottles of nailpolish at the door and screaming, "BIIITCH!"

Thea and Mel totally need to team up and lay some smackdown on Anita. Immortal, smexy, superpowered bitches UNITE!

[summersdream.livejournal.com]

LKH: Melanie? Who's Melanie? She never existed. You are totally imagining that. *surreptitiously wipes nail polish off the door while Jon finishes installing soundproofing*

Thea+Melanie. Pwning upstart necro-sues since 1975 (bc).

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

100 yrs from now, someone will stumble across the Anita Blake series, see it's copyright has expired and take up the universe as a 'Historical Detective Thriller'.

In it, we will see that Anita was an unreliable narrator. And that she'd been horrendously injured in the head in in one of the last two or so good books in the series. Everything after that was 'Anita Blake, Brain Dead Lackey Toy. And that she was kept complacent by giving her 'toys' to sooth her brain damaged aurdeur siezures. And she was the one putting names and faces to them.

Meanwhile, she was the slight embarassment in the corner, frantically touching herself, but who could raise the dead on command.

Anita as JC' powerful court jester.

Maybe the future writer will throw in something about how madness is close to psychic power and that's why Anita could sense Marmee Noir waking up - which was another good reason to keep her around.

[summersdream.livejournal.com]

... I would invent time travel for that.

[randomsome1.livejournal.com]

I will be Master of the City or you will feel the bite of my HELLBUNNIES!

This desperately needs iconned. XD

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Is anybody else thinking of the Killer Rabbit from Monty Python?

[randomsome1.livejournal.com]

That too. XD

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

*Has A Murderous Bunny Icon*

-actually I have several.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

or maybe curled up and died because they couldn't digest the meat of one of their kills

That made me laugh. I had a picture of a vampire dressed in JC's costumes with wolfish features, looking down at a kill and going, "Oh, damn."

[catskin.livejournal.com]

The Padma - Fernando thing irked me in so many, many ways.

1. How does a vampire have a child that turns out to be a lycanthrope?

2. Do vampires just have regular kids with no supernatural abilities?

3. Did Padma have him before he became a vampire, and then Fernando became a wererat?

4. Fernando is so not an Indian name. What's up with that? It's petty, I know, but it annoys me so much.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on 4, all the way. I keep thinking, "isn't that a Spanish name????" and given that Padma's straight out of the Temple of Doom, she coulda easily gone, "I'm calling his kid Krishna, or Rama!"

There's just so much WTF about his situation that hurts my head.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Well, not to defend the author 'cause I'm sure she wasn't thinking about it, but the dude did have a mother, too. No reason that she couldn't have been a different culture. According to the Anita Blake Compendium (which was left for dead, like most other AB fansites), Fernando is only half-Indian; however, I don't have my copy of BO to double-check.

[dwg.livejournal.com]

I was half thinking of that in my comment, but gave way to snark. I keep thinking that maybe his mother was Spanish, which would explain a bunch...but...at the same time...gah.

[no-ron.livejournal.com]

maybe he was adopted..
>_>

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the books in long enough that I can't recall whether it was ever established by someone who ought to know. Not that, you know, it matters. It's like LKH has _ever_ felt bound by her earlier works.

As for Anita becoming the powerfulest necromancer EVAR...well, early on I was looking forward to that. It seemed clear to me that the Vampire Council had been killing off newbie necromancers for so long (and so successfully) that they'd forgotten _why_ they'd made that rule in the first place. And Anita--sheltered by Jean Claude until it was too late (for the Council)--was going to be a really painful lesson in just what they'd forgotten. So yeah, Anita was acquiring Nifty New Kool Powerz in every novel, but that was back when I still thought LKH knew what she was doing and it was leading to a point of some sort.

Back before it just got stupid and too Mary Sue-ish even for me.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

So yeah, Anita was acquiring Nifty New Kool Powerz in every novel, but that was back when I still thought LKH knew what she was doing and it was leading to a point of some sort.

I guess I just never liked Anita well enough to be interested in her becoming this "most powerful necromancer in the history of the world" sort of chick. When I first read that, I rolled my eyes, thinking "great, that's just what she needs."

I used to read for the other characters, but now no one can withstand the Crotch of Doom.

[sinanju.livejournal.com]

Well, she didn't even have to become the greatest necromancer ever--just the first one in living (undead?) memory to survive long enough to come into her full powers. Which could have been interesting if done right: the vampires get an object lesson on not necessarily being at the top of the supernatural food chain. The key phrase, of course, being "if done right."

but now no one can withstand the Crotch of Doom.

Well, I can't argue that, at least. Alas, poor Edward.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

He is not Edward! He is Podward! The REAL Edward is secretly in talks with Richard, Ronnie, and Dolph to get Anita and Micah whacked.

*clutches theory to her chest and cries pathetically*

[summersdream.livejournal.com]

And Anita--sheltered by Jean Claude until it was too late (for the Council)--was going to be a really painful lesson in just what they'd forgotten.

... That would have been really cool. Someone should write a story like that, since Laurell obviously isn't.

[colimbina.livejournal.com]

Icon love!

Mm, bacon.

[frabjously.livejournal.com]

I also lol'ed :D

[slayra.livejournal.com]

I had the exact same thought (I've written my comment before reading the rest... *blushes*). It's just too much like Anne Rice to ignore. Then again, Lestat is french too, and is about the same age as JC... uh oh.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

(or therianthrope, for amamelina)
Wheee! I got mentioned! I feel special!

does anyone remember if a vampire (who would obviously know about Marmée Noire) in a past book ever stated that you cannot be both?

I think it's been mentioned several times in the first books, and I think JC might have mentioned something to that effect or there abouts the first time he gave her the marks. Also, when they first encounted MOAD, Anita herself said it was impossible to be both.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

That's the problem, though. As far as Anita knows, it is impossible. If a vampire, who would have known about the whole Marmée Noire thing because it's their history, said in previous books that it was impossible, then it's proof that Laurell is disregarding a rule that she previously set.

Because Anita mentions it, it's obviously not one of the Anitaverse factoids that Laurell forgot. If a vampire in a past book stated that it was impossible, it would constitute universe-rule-breaking.

[sevariusjr.livejournal.com]

I saw an episode of Real Ghostbusters once that addressed this issue. Turns out you could be both.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm trying to consider just the world that LKH created, where it has been stated repeatedly that it's biologically impossible to be a vampire and lycanthrope at the same time.

However, I'm interesting in hearing this theory. Real Ghostbusters, you say...?

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

yeah, it was a cartoon in the 80's. There were two different cartoons called Ghostbusters. One was based off of the movies (the Real Ghostbusters) and the other, I think, was a rip-off.

[saucyirishlass.livejournal.com]

Ah, those Ghostbusters. I did not realize that they used "real" in the title. My brother had quite a frightening love for them when he was younger. I'll never forget the Christmas he got a Proton Pack...

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

Oh, I would have killed for a Proton Pack! Lucky him. The boys always had the fun toys. I used to love that show. I had such a crush on the scientist. What was his name, Eguone?

[karmyn75.livejournal.com]

Egon Spengler. My favorite, also. You tube has most of the episodes.

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

Actually, there is a short story called 'The Last Grave of Lil Warren', in which Lil is a lycanthrope in life, who rises as a vampire after death. It's set in a small, isolated US community and the book it was in mentioned that the author based the story on folklore (I believe in New England). So there is literary and folkloric precedent :)

Maybe someone on Real Ghostbusters did good research :D

[catskin.livejournal.com]

My recollection (which is tainted) is that Anita just mentions it in one book. I don't remember anyone specifically telling her, just a monologue where she states that being one precludes you from being the other unless you're Anita in which case you can damn well be everything you like with bells on so there

[slayra.livejournal.com]

Not specifically. I think JC said a lycanthrope couldn't be turned into a vampire and vice-versa. Lycanthropy and Vampirism cancelled each other out or something. Think I read about it in Circus of the Damned. I think.

Still, MOAD is clearly an excuse; a precedent, shall we say. Before Anita, no-one thought you could be vampire (somewhat) and lycanthrope at the same time; thus they discover that it is, in fact, possible as MOAD is both too. The same with Chimaera and all the types of lycanthropy; before Chimaera (and Anita) one could only be one type of Lycanthrope. Same with... Padma. He set a precedent for being able to call all animals/lycanthropes... so, when Anita does it, no-one is really that surprised.

Oh yeah, Anita has teh SUPER DUPER POWA! She not only has powers that match one mutant lycanthrope (that was stronger than most) and two council members (Belle Morte and Padma, until now... when we find out more about the other council members I'll not be surprised that Anita picks up more council-level-powers, a la Rogue) but she also has abilities that match the oldest and more powerful of the vampires. Not to mention that she is the strongest necromancer EVA! It's too ridiculous.

Also, don't y'all think that this MOAD thing is a bit too much a la 'Queen of the Damned'? Because when I read about MOAD for the first time I thought 'Anne Rice Rip-off'. Though, MOAD doesn't have such a deep, strong personality as Akasha (with 1000000000+ more characters to write that is not surprising)... nor does she seem as mad.

[summersdream.livejournal.com]

The whole series is sort of working itself into one big Anne Rice trainwreck. With Anita standing in as Lestat... now she's the chosen one of Not!Akasha, soon she's going to start a band and face down the Council, switch bodies with some random guy, turn gay and seduce a witch, decide between heaven and hell, and then she'll go back and live with Micah and Nathaniel. Not necesarily all in that order. Or something.

Though I'll be quite happy if at some point Asher and Not!Claudia throw Anita into a swamp and leave her for dead.

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

LOL!

She'd only come back though, and tell them they'd been really, really naughty!