The Darla Christmas speech

[shikishinobi.livejournal.com]

So Darla decides to debate what Christmas REALLY is/was before the Christian takeover. While I normally agree with her debate, a lot of the things she says are really.... pointless. So let us look at how Darla Dear debates something that is probably not going to change on whole, and cause a lot of Christians to have a go at her.

Christmas Debate Bingle



"get em in the door and hope you can convert em. It is shown to have happened repeatedly in history."
While using this to debate conversion in religion, I also noticed how useful it is when you are an author. If you can convince someone to rad the first book, then you can convince them to read the next one and the next one and so on. Too bad by book Eight that you lose the plot while trying to work out who looks like what.


"So for some Christians to want to oust other beliefs during the Christmas Season is just funny, at least to me."
And the whole idea of making fun of you guys the whole year is funny... at least to us.

"They should look to their own history before they start complaining about anyone else."
I suppose that is a good call and that everyone should do it. But if JKH and Darla do it, then they would realize what a disaster their work is and blow it before it got more out of hand than it is now. Oops, sorry, forgot, suethors don't think that way. Their creation, no matter ho much it is flamed, just keeps on going.

”The Knowledge Tree gets space as should any group as long as its display isn't dangerous. A tree full of book covers is thought provoking, not enemy action.”
Now I see where this is leading. She wants to put up the Tree of Knowledge and cover it in Anita Blake books. It would be the biggest advertisement stunt to hit St.Louis since... I dunno. Nice try Darla, but we're not fools.

”If your own faith is so lacking that you fear others sharing their beliefs in a non-violent way is hazardous, well I cannot help you. “
You are so right there. You probably couldn't help me with ritual or meditation, let alone how to write a book.

”I am not a PC person for the most part. Simply because I think it has gone from meaning Politically Correct to Politically Crazy most of the time “
In this one statement comes many things to say.
First of all, if a computer has changed in the politically sense of things, then I am guessing it has taken you and JKH for a self-searching ride.
Next, the end of that doesn't make any sense, so it backs up my first point.
Finally, if that is the case, then she will be back on her type-writer without a spell-checker, and not but a thesaurus and dictionary beside her, which get a glance at every now and again.
And what is with the change of subject? What could Christmas Vs. Other religions have to do with computer being Politically Correct/Crazy?

”They do not tolerate other points of view or differing opinions. It is there way and only their way to truth. “
Do I seriously need to say anything about this? Didn't think so.


”It may not be PC in any sense of the word, but I offer it anyway. I hope you won't reject it.“
We reject everything that you have helped turn into a book, and that is PCrazy on many levels.

In closing, I find that this debate, like what is probably so many before her, is simply flat. It makes no great argument, makes no real point and jumps between two different subjects at random. Help. So I wonder if should hire her to go onto a political debate for the side I don't want to win? If that works, then she might find herself out of novels and in the political seats before she knows it. But I'm rambling now. Have a nice day!

Comments

[drho.livejournal.com]

*Sigh* Could someone serve her a helping of STFU to go with her serving of sanctimony?

A mini-rant

[pandaemonaeum.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if maybe just one year, just one, we could have Christmas without a bunch of non-theologians messing about and trying to 'debate' about history, theology and archaeology. Actually, I would forgive them that if the most vocal weren't also the most ignorant - empty vessels make the most noise and all that. I would like Christians to be able to celebrate Christmas, Neo-pagans to celebrate Yule, etc, without everyone bickering about who owns the damned festival. You know what? We ALL do. WE make it what it is. And maybe if someone people could remember what the hell it's all about (instead of presents and meals that take 3 days to eat) we might be able to attempt to get along with each other!

I despair. :(

Re: A mini-rant

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

For real! Most cultures have a winter festival, it's not like one group can monopolize winter festivities. It's dark and you need a party. It's a party! Stop arguing.

Re: A mini-rant

[a-proclivity.livejournal.com]

Love for your whole post. I want to CP it and send it to my entire bloody family.

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

and cause a lot of Christians to have a go at her
I'm sharpening my pitchfork and lighting my torch as we speak. Rally up the mob!

To start, I'm Roman Catholic and one step away from being a nun (once I learn obedience, I'm getting me a habit). I am really sick that every year, someone has to spark off this debate. Right now, my anger is at Darla. I am sick to death of this whole "Christmas was really a pagan holiday/Keep Christ in Christmas" debate that goes on every freakin' year! Seriously, can both sides of the fence STFU!

Yule is the pagan holiday, Christmas is Christian. Who gives a flying leap if they started off as the same? You get a day off in the year, holiday pay and presents. Stop complaining because the mall is blasting Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reigndeer every five minutes. Really, that song annoys everyone, not just you.

They do not tolerate other points of view or differing opinions. It is there way and only their way to truth.

Pot, kettle, black.

[the-ellcrys.livejournal.com]

get a day off in the year, holiday pay and presents.

Yes, but I get Christmas day off, which doesn't mean anything to me. If Yule falls during the week, I have to use a vacation day. To me, that's the heart of the problem. I understand I'm the minority, and I don't expect everyone to kowtow to me, but it would be nice if I didn't have to burn all my vacation time to celebrate my holidays. And if I didn't have to hide the reason I take certain days off during the year in order to avoid the snide remarks and whispered conversations.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, that's not my intent. This time of year brings out the worst in me because I'm sick of people treating me like a freak because of my beliefs. (It happens year round, but it's worse around Christmas.) Being Pagan doesn't mean I'm any less capable, or devoted to my job. It just means I worship different Gods, and in different ways.

[rebootfromstart.livejournal.com]

...wow, Darla, way to generalise, says the Catholic who is quite happy to hear other points of view and differing opinions.

[sadisticsidhe.livejournal.com]

1) WHAT is a 'Knowledge Tree?' Seriously, what is it? Is it like a secular Christmas Tree? 'Cause for some reason that makes me laugh, possibly because of the really terrible name.
2) Yes, Darla, you have figured me out. This Catholic is going to find out where you live and not leave you alone until you repent your evil ways. Oh, and the history thing? Bitch, please. Name one religion or country that doesn't have some shady bits in their past, stop bringing it up. It seriously doesn't make you look more intelligent.

So, is LKH a former Catholic? I have been wondering because in the AB books, Anita is a former Roman Catholic who becomes a happy Episcopalian, besides the fact she has like never gone to mass (though that may not be as big a thing as it in the Roman Catholic Church.) I am wondering because AB is basically a self-insert, so yeah, not exactly out of the realm of possibility i feel.

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

So, is LKH a former Catholic?

I think so, though to tell you the truth I can't exactly remember if I've read it anywhere. It's just that all her opinions seem to be either Catholic sentiments or extreme rejections of Catholic sentiments, and that to me says "convert."

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I hate people who get preemptively up in arms about the subject. Get angry when you say "happy holidays" and someone gets in your face and says "It's Merry Christmas" (to better enable this, become a cashier), at least.

[mystickiwi.livejournal.com]

I always thought that Happy Holidays was the cop out so you didn't have to send people good wishes on Christmas/Hannukah AND New Years (and that if you started saying it early enough/continued it late enough you got out of making sure you got in touch with people for Thanksgiving and Valentines day).

But apparently I'm just terribly lazy and the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

[baeraad.livejournal.com]

Gaaaaah, I don't entirely disagree, but this lecturing tone that LKH and Darla seems to have in common always rubs me the wrong way. Who are they addressing, exactly? Children and deeply clueless people? Because those are the only ones for whom these nuggets of religious history will be as surprising as they're clearly meant to be.

Yes, Christianity stole most of its holidays. Yes, that means that when certain Christians get up in arms about other holidays competing with Christmas, that's dumb. But everyone knows that. Well, everyone except said dumb, up-in-arms-getting Christians, but they're not likely to listen anyway... =]

I dunno. I don't like Christianity, I don't like paganism, and I don't particularly like Christmas. There's something deeply wrong, I feel, with putting a holiday that stresses good cheer and love for all mankind on the time of the year when everyone's feeling the most miserable and misanthropic. I personally celebrate a specialised form of Christmas, whereby I lock myself up, eat lots of chocolate, read or watch the kind of things that tend to make me happy, and generally put off trying to be an acceptable human being until such a time when things aren't quite as dark and cold and depressing... =]

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Oh word. My fantasy Christmas is pizza, beer, and movies either alone, or with friends. I'd also like to be somewhere where it snows at Christmas as I'm fed right the hell up with summer. I'm all for peace and reflecting on the betterment of mankind, but all this cheer is plain fucking creepy...specially the people who genuinely mean being so cheerful. *shudders*

[cherith.livejournal.com]

Good old Darla, way to generalize and alienate and good Christian fans by telling them how much they suck. I'm not a Christian, but even I'm offended by her dumbassery.

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

I am a Christian and I'm extremely pissed off by her lecture. I'm fortunate enough to live in the NYC metropolitian area and therefore allowed to make my own choices and not have them force fed to me. I really don't need Darla making them for me or lecturing me on the good and bad associated with Chritianity or Christmas.

By the by, if you think about it Christmas is supposed to be a giagantic birthday party. That's all. So those who wish to enjoy the party-have fun.

[jerel.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. :) Pass the eggnog. ::switches on A Christmas Story:::

[leoin.livejournal.com]

God I wish she would just shut up. I myself am Christian and I loathe the fact that she is speaking for me/trying to generalize me. The worse thing is that this comes off as, I don't know ... belittling? I don't know what faith she is, but since LKH is Wiccan now I'm guessing she probably is too. Which is completely fine - do whatever floats your boat. But if you are going to write about we (and I use we loosely) "do not tolerate other points of view or differing opinions" don't fucking do it yourself.

Religion doesn't make asses - people are just asshats on their own, in my opinion. She being case in point.

[easol.livejournal.com]

Bravo, leoin. Totally. I don't care what religion anyone is as long as they don't presume to tell me what *I* believe, or what they think I should believe.

It's fucking annoying when Darla decides to play the saintly Wiccan speaking out, defending everyone in the world from those evil nasty holiday-snatching Christians... many of whom probably DON'T LIKE LKH'S BOOKS! I mean, what other signs of evilness do you need?

It's extra stupid because it's not like there's bloodshed in the streets of St. Louis from people debating whether you should celebrate Hanukkah, Ramadan, Yule or Christmas.

[lucidscreamer.livejournal.com]

If you can convince someone to rad the first book

Someone should rad LKH's books. Nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.


Sorry. Couldn't resist. ;)

[longtail.livejournal.com]

I always find this debate funny, considering NOBODY'S religion is remotely anything like it was when it started. Trying to remain "pure" in any religion is pointless. Nobody has the "original" anything.

That said, I'm a huge holiday buff and I'm an athiest. I was raised in an entirely secular household. I've got my tree, pointsettas, shopping list half finished, cookies in the jar, and jingly music. As far as I'm concerned, it's MY PARTY AND IT'S ALL ABOUT MEEEEEEEE! :D

[easol.livejournal.com]

Very true. Cultures, religions etc are not pure anything, if you split hairs -- they take from each other, merge things, and slip their own stuff into convenient notches. They evolve, they morph, and any healthy culture takes in elements of OTHER cultures.

Take wedding rings! Is it somehow wrong and evil for Christians to have appropriated wedding rings from the Egyptians and Romans?

[entropyastaroth.livejournal.com]

I'm an evil atheist and even I can see that LKH and Darla can't argue...

[easol.livejournal.com]

This is one of the most unintentionally hilarious blogs Darla has ever done. Seriously. Maybe if she weren't so busy sneering at Christians, she would note a wise old saying about the mote in your brother's eye, and the plank in your own...

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

One quick thing: go to the blog and scroll down through the comments. The last one (currently) is by a girl named Ashes. I think she had the best comment and I'm hoping it stays up. In case, I'm posting some of it here. As I said, I really liked her response.

Your stance here implies that Christians are running around saying, "How dare other religions have holidays! How dare they steal our thunder!" While I'm sure they're out there, I've never met a Christian who thought no other religion deserved to share this season. That said, I do think theres something to be said about the fact that the season is so overrun with "political crazy" that some people want to change what Santa says to "Hey! Hey! Hey" because the word "ho" is offensive. That's about the dumbest PC change I can think of. But what I resent is that I can't say "Merry Christmas" to a customer at work because a couple of angry atheists get their panties in a twist about it. It should not be this hard to share a little bit of goodwill to fellow man.

Also, I don't really see why where the majority of the Christmas symbols come from should really matter in this case. Yes, they did originate in Paganism. Everyone knows that. In modern times it's symbolic to Christians in the same way Christmas is. The first thing we learned at Catholic boot camp was that just because some things about Christianity are not historically accurate (in this case, the date we celebrate Christ's birth) does not mean they are not true. It's a big deal to Christians. Why does it matter where it began?

As I said, I liked her response and I hope that Darla keeps it up there. Despite it not being a bunch of boot licking like the others.

[cheeky-duckie.livejournal.com]

Hi! =D

Re: A mini-rant

[azikale.livejournal.com]

The whole Christmas thing annoys me. You get Christians complaining about it being called Xmas (the 'x' comes from the Chi-Rho, the Greek for the first parts of Christ's name, shown as an X over a P, which was used by Constantine & other Roman Christians to show faith,so Xmas is still very much Christian) or it becoming too secular. The atheists dislike the religious overtones, the pagans think the Christians stole their festival (adopted,really, via the Romans) and everyone just gets a little too tetchy really.

Pretty much every culture we know of (in Northern Europe for sure, and probably everywhere that experiences a winter) would have had some sort of winter festival, and many had corresponding summer/spring/harvest ones too. It's a pretty logical thing- you pray to bring back the sun, for the winter to finish without too many deaths, to celebrate the turning of the seasons. It's only the details that make it specifically Christian or pagan or whatever.

I'm personally liking the way my local council is dealing with it- put up decorative lights that are so generically pretty that they go up for Divali and don't come down till Chinese new year.

Re: A mini-rant

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

I'm personally liking the way my local council is dealing with it- put up decorative lights that are so generically pretty that they go up for Divali and don't come down till Chinese new year.
I love this idea. (Are you in the UK by any chance?)

[longtail.livejournal.com]

*applauds!*

This always works for me...

[skeezix74.livejournal.com]

I let you do your shit, you let me do my shit and everyone is happy. I'm comfortable and secure enough in my own beliefs not to be offended by yours. Hopefully you can say the same.

Just curious

[ladymuttly1.livejournal.com]

Am I the only person who is actually enjoying Christmas this year? I'm having a grand old time buying for a pack of friend's kids and planning the Christmas feast.

I'm passing the eggnog, putting Year Without A Santa Claus on the DVD, decorating the tree and singing those Christmas songs in case anyone wants to join. I figured I'd start with "The Snow Miser song" cause I like it.

[morriganscrow.livejournal.com]

*waves* Celtic Shaman here, living in the Southern Hemisphere. We celebrate Lughnasa at this time of year, with Yule in July. I am all for happy holidays of any and all persuasions, without the lecturing, posturing, denigrating and pontificating. Have fun, be with your loved ones, help those less fortunate, care for the Earth in some way - enjoy Life.

[sundrymusings.livejournal.com]

Sorry, replying to someone else. :)