Something that has been bugging me...

[aerofish.livejournal.com]

Hello, all. I'm new to this group and this is my first post. I figured I'd introduce myself with this peeve of mine.

I was reading the sample chapters for the next Anita book, and it was mentioned Anita is 27. This made me back up and go WTF(well, more than I already was). I know Anita is supposed to be in her twenties, yet that fact just never seems to stick, and I constantly find myself envisioning her as mid-30s with the mind-set, perhaps, of someone much older, if not the maturity. And giving her the age of 27 in this upcoming book really drove home the point to me, as that is my age.

Anita does not act like any twenty-something I know. For any of you around Anita's age, do you feel the same way? And I know I'm making a sweeping generalization about how a 25-30 year old should act, but shouldn't there be some consistencies with the popular culture for this age group? I have so many examples, but here's two obvious ones:

-Does she dress like someone my age dresses? Maybe if it were the 80's or early 90's, with her silk shell blouses and pantyhose and power jackets. Maybe she's going for a retro-ironic hipster thing, and I'm too dull to see it?

-She speaks with none of the slang commonly used. And while yes, "nifty" is a, well, nifty word...it's not exactly the cornerstone of a young person's vocabulary, right? Doesn't she, in one book referencing her brother's opinion of her line of work, even say something like "he says it's cool, or whatever the kids are saying these days?" Uh. Right.

In general, this is such a minor pet peeve, what with the many many MANY issues with her books I am having these days. But still, shouldn't there be a least a few references here and there anchoring Anita to the age she is supposed to be?

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_cynical_beauty/]

i agree, even though i knew that anita was supposed to be in her twenties, she always seemed late thirties if not early forties to me just because of the vocabulary and her clothing...
it bugged me so much that i had to just block out the words (as you mentioned) "nifty" and all as i read so that i could continue picturing her as a twenty-something. and whenever the clothing was described, i always skimmed. 1 because it was overdone to begin with and 2 because it ruined my image of anita (and any of the boys for that matter-except sometimes jean-claude's appearance). the clothing sounds like something from the late eighties/early nineties and the later books (which arent from that time) just seem stuck there.

I too, find it annoying.

[coffeehouse.livejournal.com]

Well, Anita is in her late 20's... from the era when LKH was in her late 20's.
LKH is writing what she knows.
In the Merry novels, the same thing is happening. Merry is LKH at that age, complete with the clothes and make-up of the time.
Heck, look at her author photos. Tell me she's not locked in a decade!

Based on LKH's blog, it sounds like she doesn't get out much. Yeah, they drag her to kid things and movies and she goes on a book tour here and there, but she really isolates herself otherwise. She doesn't go to coffee shops and watch people and listen to the way they speak, she's not hanging out in bars or clubs to see what's happening now. Heck, sometimes it seems like she doesn't even pick up a fashion mag or gossip rag in a doctor's office! All things that would bring her perspective on "what the kids are saying these days" as well as wearing, doing, trying, whatever. It bugs me that she's got her characters stuck in a decade known for bad fashion and even worse hair!

[dwg.livejournal.com]

She was meant to be 24 when she started out in GP.

Nobody I know in the whole 25-30 age group acts like Anita. Except for the whole, "YOU TOUCH MY COFFEE, I WILL KILL YOU!" kind of thing, because university teaches us that coffee = food of the gods.

We're not that self-righteous and preachy. The people I know would rather stand back and make fun of people like her, and then laugh maniacally if she'd ever give us a "What kind of crack are you smokin'?" look.

We don't dress like her. We realise that the 80s was a traumatic era for everyone involved and cling to the revolution of the 90s and the retro of the 70s. We don't follow the fashion trends because A) they're stupid, B) trashy and C) none of us can afford it.

As for the slang, I had to ask people what she meant by something to do with Merlioni (one of the RPIT detectives) and it's meant to be an old-style Italian derrogatory term. I was all, "Wtf?" because I've never heard it before. I know I use some jazz-age slang, simply because it's from the era of cool and nobody knows what the hell you're talking about, which suits me just fine. Then again, I live in the country of slang, so...I'm probably not one to talk.

[in10sity.livejournal.com]

"YOU TOUCH MY COFFEE, I WILL KILL YOU!"

well said, well said.

[ladyvy.livejournal.com]

Okay... Seeing as I'm a twenty-something year old, I'll vouch and say... YEAH, she does act old. But I have the same thing going on... I act way older than my age or even how I look. I look like I'm 14... LoL. But I act like I'm in my late 20s, early 30s.

Even so, I do use slang, and am on top of the pop culture. LKH has seemed to make an error in her neglectfulness. Making others wonder about the likelihood that Anita is that old. Since Anita IS LKH if she was invincible, why didn't she just use her own age? I mean Anita could still be a geezer and just look young. I guess it all comes down to a matter of how comfortable one is about their own mortality.

[kidkai.livejournal.com]

I never really thought much about it. Not that it didn't bother me, but I just put it off as yet another example of the Sueing of Anita-- she is only 27 but look how mature she is! Isn't she just wonderful!

As for the clothing, I never really stopped and thought much about the actual clothes. I was always too annoyed buy the amount and depth of the description. The woman spends more time detailing and describing her outfit than she does her soulmates. All 11 of them.

[saadiira.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I think that Anita acts YOUNGER. Hear me out, now, please.

1-Even early on, her entire badassitude was classicly teenaged bravado on steroids. Even when I liked her, half the time I had to shake my head over how damn STUPID it really was to be saying half of what she was..and unecessary to still prove, woah, I am not afraid/will not give you what you want you bastid...Not that I don't love the snark, far from it, but c'mon...Much of it is the reaction a teenager would THINK a badass would cop.
2-She cannot accomplish a genuine, mature relationship with a man. Early on, she was even still agonizing over having sex at all, then at the same time, having sex with two men, and being completely unreasonable about the entire affair.
3-Many of her arguments and peeves and so on are quite childish.
4-Deep down, the Anita character was a nerd. Now, there are various forms of nerd, of course. Some are just bookish, but otherwise normal, some just more intelligent, some even don't LOOK like nerds on the surface. Still, Anita was at the least a 'good girl' nerd. Not that socially apt, truly, at all.
5-Anita's core of self loathing over thoughtless family comments, and things that cannot be changed. By the time most of us hit our twenties and thirties, we stop the hell worrying about whether or not we're blonde like our stepmother/sister, whatever, and are far more accepting of who we are. In short..ANGSTS like a teen.


Good and bad, and with the massive 'tude, the OLD Anita actually reminded me quite a bit of MYSELF at about 16 on several of those points...That's before life has the tendency to kick that shit out of you, and teach you it's too damnes short, to boot. (Some of her expressions and style likewise, as an aside, though frankly, back in the eighties (When I was a teen) and since, I personally was pretty damned STYLIN', SO not the prep variety, and wouldn't be caught dead in one of those windbreakers OR an Izod shirt...The nikes with the swoosh were mostly for gym class, and when I dressed it up straight, it was jeans and concert and cigarette (Yes, it was still cool to smoke) tees, or if I dressed androgynous, it was black leather, or military surplus, thank you.

I only did the Miami vice froofroo colors when I LIVED in Miami, and then rarely. Head to toe black, and admittedly by college, a good five ten years beyond my time (Which would put my fashion sense at least firmly in the nineties). NOT all eighties fashions were the worst, though. Some of the fringe stuff was pretty damned cool. You got elements of grunge before there was grunge (It was called not giving a damn if you wore your hiking clothes to school), goth, and punk that weren't at all bad, and fortunately, fads like the tuxedo blouse passed quickly.)

What LKH seems to have picked up on for her vampires is straight out of a Poison or early Adam Ant video. I'm not even sure it's really Goth.

Now, I'd actually say that LKH was a teen starting in the early EIGHTIES, and aging out by about '87..so there you go on the fashion, and expressions. Not only was she an eighties teen, but a MIDWESTERN one. ANY cool factor you'd really find would be on the coasts, just like now, and much of what you see now of eighties fashion is the creme de la crap they were pushing in romantic comedies. Figure Laurel for 3-5 years BEHIND whatever would have been avante gard at the time, and a dumbed down version to boot, and there you go. She'd also be stuck with expressions that would have filtered down 3-5+ years late, and since more kids still listened to their parents and grandparents back then (Or had to in circumstances like around the table more often, where such things are more likely to come up), it's not surprising she'd pick up some bizarre slang from other eras. There's also the chance that some of what she's got is specifically regional. St Louis, ie, is big on Blues.

-Dira-

[randomsome1.livejournal.com]

I'm not as well-versed in the series as most of the people on here, but I did notice in the 3-chapter misspelled excerpt on her site that Anita and Ronnie were acting like crack-addled fourteen-year-olds.

"Shh, I'm a hobag, don't tell anyone."

"Ok, and I might be pregnant, don't tell anyone."

*boys arrive*

"YOU WHORE!! GUESS WHAT SHE JUST TOLD ME!!!"

"OMG I H8 YOU!!! ANITA'S KNOCKED UP!"

[aerofish.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definately thinks she acts much, much younger than her age (Anita? You WERE throwing it in Ronnie's face in the upcoming book. What are we, 6?) You hit it right on the head.

I figured that it was a case of LKH's own experiences at that age coming through. And if the books were set in that period, hey, no problem. But unless I am wrong, and they're not supposed to be seen as happening now, it just bugs the hell outta me.

I mean, I was raised by my grandparents AND in North Dakota, to boot. And that doesn't explain it for me. Really, the fashion was not that far behind. And it took maybe a couple months to be assimilated. And she does watch TV, yes? Or is that too proletariat for her? Because surely she realizes fashion has changed a bit from when she was 27.

Maybe her emotional maturity and her pop culyure maturity, when added, equal her actual age? I dunno. lol

[track-04.livejournal.com]

Anita's fashion sense has always struck me as something that wasn't even particularly cool at the time it was in, though. The descriptions sound more like something my grandmother would have worn at the time, not someone who would even be attempting to be hip. o.<; Or that could just be my own personal bias. Because I loathe fanny packs. >.>;

And I'm not entirely sure your take on the midwest is absolutely correct. We do tend to be behind but 3-5 years seems like a little extreme. 6 months or even possibly a year, yeah, but we're not quite that out of touch. I'd give you a little longer in the 80s when LKH would have been growing up, true... but it seems to me that she was always just a little on the lame side to begin with from what I'm picking up. *laughs*

And I don't think the slang she uses is regionally based. Not from what I've heard from people from the St. Louis area, at least. I think it just shows LKH's severe inability to get with the times. XD;

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

The thing that gets me is not only am I pretty sure she should be older by now (wasn't it a few books ago when she was supposed to be 28 already?) but that LKH, the first and last time I saw her at a convention (about eight or nine years ago) said that she purposely made Anita in her early twenties when the books started so she could age her. And she has the frickin' marks, so it's not like they have to worry about her getting old and groddy (not that a thirty year old is that old, but apparently LKH thinks so).

The clothes have always pissed me off, year. If she had straight hair she'd probably be crimping it or something. I'm also only 21, so I can't really talk for people in their late twenties who have gotten solid jobs and relationships and everything, but she should be using more slang. Hell, Jason and Nathaniel should just be walking slang machines. (I could totally see Jason mockingly using gangsta terms all the time ::grins::)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_cynical_beauty/]

jason and gangsta terms...thats perfect. :D

[dwg.livejournal.com]

Hee! Yes! Jason would all be about the gangsta terms, fo' shizzle.

[aerofish.livejournal.com]

ANOTHER pet peeve. I know Anita does very specialized work and is paid in accord to that. But geez...at least half the mid-twenty-somethings I know are still working out what they want to be when "they grow up". While there are plenty of people Anita's age who do, indeed have the financial responsibility and security she does....they still tend to question where they're going and what they want a bit, you know? At least Jason acts like a twenty-something when it comes to his future and what he wants.

[kuzunoha.livejournal.com]

Not to mention Nathanial was a STREET kid.

A friend of mine was a street kid for about 5 months. She chose it, sort of like a cultural expeiriance.

Nathaniel, even though "reformed", would still have mannerisms and a touch of the language. That's what he grew up in.

On a different note with the demands of food for lycanthrope's I don't see how he would survive on the streets like that. He would be shifting all over the place. I know people that scrounge all day through ashtrays, scraping tobacco out of butts, with a single dirty rolling paper so they can share the cig with four other people just to feel less hungry.

Nathaniel should definatly be using some slang.

[jassanja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Anita angsts like a teeny, and dresses like a suburban soccer mom.
What really seems to make her look old is her attitude. Esp in the early books I was going WTF?? when she sold about not having sex before she gets married, but then hopes that Richard would proposse to her after two dates

Well, I blamed the not understanding then on me being European....

The really hard thing for me to believe it that she truelly is dark haired, and has bit tits.
I can't help it, but see her as a dirty blonde with a flat chest, no matter how often I read otherwise or remind myself that Anita is supposed to look just like LKH

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know plenty of people who try not to have sex until marriage. I think it has to do with a moral revival in the parents during the eighties, who probably had sex all the time and don't want to think about their children doing the same. I'd even hazard to say the Europeans I've met are a lot more likely to have sex before marriage than the Americans (though we get called "sluts" because European in tourist cities are unable to grasp what "vacation" means ::shakes fist:: ).

Dirty blond with flat chest? Why is that?

[delphinapterus.livejournal.com]

The use of slang in the books seems really odd - Anita uses more slang than Jason and Nat, who are both younger than her, and Jason especially would be in a position to pick up and use a lot of it. For myself, the type and amount of slang that I use changes with the people I'm with - if I'm with older relatives I won't use the same slang, or as much of it, as when I'm with my friends. It is just polite to use words that everyone understands. Anita uses the same slang for everyone, and this seems like she's trying to impress people while at the same time making them feel old. I'm not sure really sure about outdated usage, what bugs me more is that she never expands her slang vocabulary. It's been about three years in the cannon (Have I got that right?) but the slang has not changed at all. Also, with vampires living through the centuries, they would be in a perfect position to pick up and use outdated slang, like having a knee tremble.

I can't really comment on the fashions, not being much into that sort of thing myself, but it seems odd that Anita's wardrobe never changes. It goes from chaste-Anita to succubus-Anita without any in-between phase. The vampires simply don't change their clothing styles at all. The same goes for hairstyles - it was a big upset with Jason got a hair cut.

The thing that makes Anita seem old is her attitude, which paradoxically also makes her seem young. She is so very puritanical in her view on sex, intimacy, and relationships. She grandstands like a young person trying to get respect and attention. Anita is childish in her relationships and won't allow compromise within them. Yet, at the same time she is very touchy at sex. She is also looking for an excuse for having sex, like a very repressed older person who was raised in a way that viewed sex as only for procreation. It's almost a middle class Victorian attitude.

[mneiai.livejournal.com]

Omg, or remember when Richard cut off his hair? It was like they were under nuclear attack or something!

Someone needs to get LKH a Vogue subscription, or something. Show her what's actually considered sexy nowadays.

[kuzunoha.livejournal.com]

As I said in an earlier comment.

Nathanial was a STREET kid. Raised on the streets by the streets. Even "reformed" he would retain some of the mannerisms and language.

He really should be tougher too... I mean, street kids are tough 'cause they have to be to survive. No matter how beaten down he was, he would have basic survival instincts... He would HAVE too... Or he would have been dead.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I use "nifty," but I'm also a weirdo geek who's nothing like Anita and my speech patterns and dress are not typical of people my age.

Her clothes...yeah. The only people my age I know who dress like that all the time are political science and economics majors. Anita is pretty clearly neither.

I'd say overall, she definitely vibes 30s to me and always have. I never really realized she wasn't supposed to be.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

...and I might note that I don't know many people in their thirties who dress 80s formal all the time, either. Like, zero.

Anita is just a weird conglomerate of teenager and 30-something prude, stuck in 80s fashion. I guess it's a good thing I always tuned out the clothing descriptions.

[russian.livejournal.com]

I mentioned this to my ex-boyfriend just yesterday.

Something along the lines of, "Why does she always wear silk shirts and fucking black jeans and a fanny pack? Way to be lame."

[track-04.livejournal.com]

I have always found that really annoying, too. I'm 25 and I don't know anyone close to my age who would act, dress or talk like that. I'm sure there are those few anomalies out there that I just haven't met yet... but, well, this just makes it that much more obvious what a Mary Sue that Anita is, doesn't it?

I find myself always imagining her a) older and b) in better clothes when I read the books. The second is hard, of course, since LKH has to go through painful 3 page long descriptions of the same black nikes with the swoosh that she's been talking about since Guilty Pleasures.

Then again... she just doesn't write young characters well, does she? None of the men that are supposed to be young like Nathaniel or Jason really seem that believable either.

This would all be so much more tolerable if she didn't envision herself as such a great writer, too. XD;

[dracoliciousss.livejournal.com]

Remember when she snootily told Zerbrowski "these are *date* clothes?"...I really shuddered at that, because no twenty-something i know would wear a skirt with "hose" and a tshirt on a date. I'm willing to concede that i could be wrong, but i really think no one in any zip code would wear that. There seems to have been a shift from the horrid polo shirts, black jeans and nikes to the black boots, skirts, and "scoop-neck" tshirts. And the outfits she comes up with for Jean-Claude are just laughable. He dresses like something out of Wannabe Goth Weekly, the period clothes mixed with the vinyl is just so absurd!! ok, i'm done ranting now, lol.